A School Shooting In Connecticut Leaves ‘More Than Two Dozen People’ Dead, Mostly Children – Shooter Identified [UPDATE]

20 Children, 7 Adults Killed; Shooter Identified

Ugh, horrifying HORRIFYING news to pass along today … a man opened fire inside of an elementary school in Newtown, CT this morning and killed at least a dozen people, tho some reports are saying that upwards of 27 people were killed — including children! It’s really very difficult to wrap my head around this tragic news. At this point, the news coming from the scene is constantly changing so it’s impossible to know for sure what exactly happened this morning. One report claims that of the reported dead, 14-18 of them were children — CHILDREN :( As I say, the news is constantly changing but read on to learn more about what is being reported right now. UPDATE: The school shooter has been identified by authorities as Adam Lanza, 20, after it was originally reported to be his older brother Ryan Lanza, 24.

More than two dozen people, mostly elementary school children, were shot and killed at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school this morning, federal and state sources tell ABC News. The massacre involved two gunmen at a Connecticut school this morning, prompting the town of Newtown to lock down all of its schools and draw SWAT teams to the school, authorities said today. State Police confirm that one shooter is dead. A second gunman is apparently at large. Car-to-car searches are underway. It’s unclear how many people have been shot, but 25 people, mostly children are dead, multiple federal and state sources tell ABC News. That number could rise, officials said. It is the worst shooting in a U.S. elementary school in recent memory. The shooting comes just three days after masked gunman Jacob Roberts opened fire in a busy Portland, Ore., mall killing two before turning the gun on himself. Today’s shooting occurred at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, about 12 miles east of Danbury. State Police received the first 911 call at 9:41a.m. and immediately began sending emergency units from the western part of the state. Initial 911 calls stated that multiple students were trapped in a classroom, possibly with a gunman, according to a Connecticut State Police source. A photo from the scene shows a line of distressed children being led out of the school. While some students have been reunited with their parents on the school’s perimeter, one group of students remains unaccounted for, according to a source with a child in the school.
The school is kindergarten through fourth grade … State police sent SWAT team units to Newtown. All public and private schools in the town are on lockdown. “We have increased our police presence at all Danbury Public Schools due to the events in Newtown. Pray for the victims,” Newtown Mayor Boughton tweeted. State emergency management officials said ambulances and other units were also en route and staging near the school. A message on the school district website says that all afternoon kindergarten is cancelled today and there will be no mid-day bus runs.

I can’t even … how does something like this happen? I was horrified by the news out of Colorado last July when a man opened fire inside a movie theater. But this news … that a man walked into an elementary school of kindergarten to fourth graders and opened fire just blows my mind. This from Robert Goulston, reporter for Channel 3 Eyewitness News WFSB-TV (CBS):

Source says shooter went from classroom to classroom shooting students and adults. #newtown

We’re hearing unconfirmed reports that the principal was killed, that the shooter is the father of a student but at this point we don’t know why. CBS News is reporting that the shooter, who wielded 2 handguns, has been killed … and that a second shooter may be involved:

Law enforcement sources told Miller that preliminary and unconfirmed information indicates that the shooter was the father of a student. The shooter was killed and apparently had two guns, a person with knowledge of the shooting told The Associated Press. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still under way.

ABC News reports 1 shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary was a 24-year-old in a bulletproof vest with 4 guns. #developing

NBC report: Person in custody, may be second individual connected to CT school shooting

Of the people killed, reports suggest that many of the children killed were from the same kindergarten class. Another report claims that an entire kindergarten class is unaccounted for — possibly the same class! I just cannot. This story will change as new information is released but at this point, we know that children have been gunned down. Keep in mind that the numbers presented here could be incorrect and I hope with all my heart that the numbers are wrong, that the number dead is not this high. Folks, please take some time to send your prayers and good thoughts to the people of Newtown, CT.

UPDATE: The Huffington Post is reporting that the shooter has been identified by authorities as Ryan Lanza:

The suspect in one of the the deadliest school shootings in history has been identified as Ryan Lanza, authorities said Friday. According to police, Lanza, 24, is suspected of killing 27 people — 8 adults and 18 children — at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. The shooter was killed during the rampage and several others were injured. The identities of the shooting victims has not yet been released. The gunman was wearing dark clothing, a mask, a bulletproof vest, and was carrying four guns. A cause and manner of death is pending, police said. Police continue to investigate if there was a second shooter involved.

Lanza who lived in nearby New Jersey is REPORTEDLY from Newtown, CT and it is being REPORTED that his mother Nancy Lanza was a teacher at the school and is among the dead. This has NOT yet been confirmed officially.

@BBCBreaking Gunman Ryan Lanza’s mother, a teacher, believed to be among victims of school shooting in #Newtown

UPDATE 2: Lanza‘s father has been REPORTEDLY found dead in his home:

The alleged shooter has been identified by NBC News as Ryan Lanza, 24, and he shot and killed his father in Hoboken, New Jersey. WNBC says Lanza then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School where his mother was the kindergarten teacher. Lanza is said to have entered the front office at the school and opened fire, then walked to his mother’s classroom and opened fire, killing her and other students. Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police would only say that “the shooter is deceased inside the building…”

UPDATE 3: There are reports that Lanza‘s younger brother is in police custody, it is believed that the brother is the person who may or may not be the alleged “second shooter”. If this information about Lanza turns out to be true, it sounds like Lanza (and possibly his younger brother) murdered his father in his home in Hoboken, NJ and then went to Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT where his mother was a kindergarten teacher and opened fire on her and her students (among others). This from NBC News:

A teacher’s son clad in black and carrying two handguns rampaged through a Connecticut elementary school Friday, killing 18 small children and seven adults, including his mother, in the nation’s second-worst school massacre, law enforcement officials said. The gunman, identified as Ryan Lanza, 24, of Hoboken, N.J., also was found dead at the scene, a federal law enforcement official said. Lanza’s mother is a kindergarten teacher at the Newtown, Conn., school, and it’s inside her classroom where most of the casualties took place, according to WNBC’s Jonathan Dienst. Another member of Lanza’s family was found shot to death at home in Newtown, and a second person is in custody for a possible connection to Friday’s slaughter … The motive for the shooting was unknown … Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told WNBC’s Dienst. The Associated Press said one of the guns was a.223-caliber rifle.

This is absolutely the most heartbreaking news. Utterly and completely.

UPDATE 4: Police Lt. Paul Vance has confirmed that 20 children and 7 adults were killed by the gunman, who is also dead, equaling 28 dead at the school. He also confirmed that “another person” connected to this shooting was also found dead offsite, this very likely refers to Ryan Lanza‘s father in Hoboken, NJ.

Update 5: It is now being reported that the name of the shooter is actually Adam Lanza NOT Ryan Lanza. Ryan, the older brother, is being questioned by police but it is being reported that he is not involved with the shooting. Adam, the younger brother, is now reported as the shooter:

The suspected gunman behind Friday’s shooting at a Connecticut elementary school has been identified as Adam Lanza, 20, according to Fox News. Lanza died at the scene. Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead and targeted her kindergarten class at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., sources sais. Sources also told The Post that Lanza’s mother was a teacher at the school and he “had a dispute with her.” Police in Hoboken, NJ are questioning Lanza’s older brother Ryan, 24, but he is not a suspect. Officials initially reported Ryan Lanza was the suspect in the shooting, however Fox News confirmed the suspect is in fact 20-year-old Adam Lanza.

Adam Lanza‘s identification as the shooter is also being reported by The New York Times:

A law enforcement official identified the shooter as Adam Lanza and said that a brother, Ryan Lanza, had been questioned.

As I understand it now, trying to sort thru the confusing reports, Ryan Lanza lives in NJ and is being questioned by police. Adam Lanza, who is now believed to be the shooter, lived in Newtown, CT with his father and mother Nancy Lanza who is a teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where the shooting took place. Adam‘s father (at his home) and mother (at the school) were killed today along with 20 elementary school students (18 killed on site, 2 died at the hospital) and 7 adults who worked at the school. There appears, at this point, to be no “second shooter”.

[Source, Source, Source, Source]

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  1. It is mindblowing. All events like this are tragic, but I cannot wrap my head around it happening in an elementary school. The poor children and their poor families. It would be sad at any time of the year but this close to Christmas seems like salt in wound. My heart breaks for everyone connected to the school.

    • Hannah, I thought about the holidays too. It’s all bad. Just bad. I can’t believe at least 18 parents went to pick up their kids, and couldn’t. I can’t.

    • Vicky

      Shannon… I know… I just can’t either. I work in a school with kids Preschool to Grade 12 and the thought of losing one kid is heartbreaking, but to imagine almost an entire class gone… I just can’t.

  2. Vicky

    There truly are no words. How someone could kill one innocent child is unfathomable, let alone dozens of them… I honestly cannot and do not want to believe this. What has the world come to? Kids should be able to feel safe when they are at school. I am at a loss for words.

  3. Kayla

    My thoughts are with all the families effected by this. I can’t even imagine going through this.

  4. Iris B

    This is such a horrible thing to see before the Holidays. I feel for the parents and family…

  5. I’ve been following this all morning and can’t believe how much worse it all keeps getting. All I can do is cry and pray. My heart hurts so much for the families and the children. Even the children that survive this will still have the childhoods ripped from them forever… I just can’t.

  6. Lyss

    This doesn’t even seem real. None of these shootings in the past can be justified, but this one? On innocent KIDS?? I’m at a loss for words — and for a logical connection =/

  7. i couldn’t believe it when i was watching the news. its horrible. there are no words to describe this. just heart breaking. the world really has gone to hell. my thoughts & prayers are with the families.

  8. fmx

    What could drive someone to do something horrific and take away all those precious babies. :(

  9. Michelle

    I grew up in the area and currently live in the next town over. Newtown is such a quiet town, to have something like this is unimaginable. My heart just keeps breaking, the information that keeps being revealed is just horrific. Ugh :’(

  10. Megan

    I’ve been crying all morning watching the updates on this. Now I’m just angry. I am done with politicians being afraid to tackle the issue of gun control. Now our children are the victims of it – will be continue to do nothing? Ugh

  11. Lola

    My nephew is almost 5 and set to start kindergarten next fall – I can’t imagine the devastation of the families who have lost their children and loved ones today in this senseless act. Pray pray pray… that’s all we can do for them right now.

  12. Gillian

    The right to bare arms should never ever be more important than the rights of children to go to school without the fear of being gunned down, shot, or harmed in any way. Or the right to go to a mall without getting shot, or the right to go enjoy a movie.

    IT IS TIME TO WAKE UP!
    Gun laws NEED to CHANGE.

    The right for “you” to go out and buy gun is NOT worth more than the life or safety of my child.
    The politicians do NOTHING because not enough of us ask them to DO SOMETHING about it. Its time for us to make a stand and put this issue to rest for good. So that something like this doesn’t happen to anyone else.

  13. Ashley

    My heart breaks for these families. I have a one year old son and I couldn’t not imagine life without him. This act was so senseless and uncalled for. The innocent children who lost their lives today played no role in his issues with his parents. They were children of other families that are now childless or one less child in their family. There are so many emotions I am feeling. May God be with the families who lost their children today.

  14. Steph

    I think that boiling this down to gun laws alone is too simplistic. The number of mass shootings, teen suicides and murder-suicides in the states (and elsewhere) points to a mulch-factorial, societal issue. As someone who works in the field, it bothers me when someone says this happens because the person was mentally ill or “crazy”, again that idea is too simple. Things like this happen because people who suffer from mental illness are are unable to get the help they require. Even up here in Canada, we are slowly privatizing mental health services more and more to the point where the people who REALLY need our help can’t get it. In addition to that, we stigmatize mental health difficulties so often that people are scared to get help. These things do not happen in a vacuum, these people do not live so isolated that no one notices anything going on.
    Please don’t misunderstand me here. Does the US need better gun laws- absolutely, no argument. But I don’t think the overhaul needs to stop there, we need to begin to recognize when people need help, offer it to them, and make sure that help is free for everyone. Governments need to make mental health (and gun laws) a priority now, and not wait until something else happens on their watch.

    Just my humble opinion. My heart goes out to both the families who have lost someone and to the children and the families that will be dealing with the repercussions of witnessing such an awful event for many years.

  15. Gun laws did not cause the tragedy today. A crook is still going to get a gun and use it, whether a law is in place or not. If it weren’t a gun, it would be a baseball bat or a knife or a (insert object here). Stop with the “tougher gun law” argument already, it’s weak.

    • I’m not going to comment on tougher gun laws, but I have to point out that this guy never could have killed this many people or children with a knife or baseball bat. I just don’t think that particular argument applies here.

    • A guy in China sliced 20 kids the same day as this tragedy. Thankfully, all are alive – but it could have been 20 dead. The argument does apply.

    • @cowgirl– “Stop with the “tougher gun law” argument already, it’s weak.”

      It’s not weak. Weakness is not standing up to organizations like the NRA who continue to scare us into thinking enacting sensible gun laws will strip us of our Constitutional rights.

    • The NRA (or any organization) can’t influence someone who doesn’t want to be influenced. I’m pretty strong minded, and don’t automatically believe the first thing that falls from someone’s head. :)

    • Ella

      Thank you Trent! Steph above made a good point too. Did you know it’s easier for a poor person to obtain a gun than it is for them to get access to mental health care? HOW does that make any sense???
      What is weak is shrugging your shoulders and saying they’re going to get the guns anyway so why police it. I’m sorry cowgirl. I’m not trying to fight with you, but you cannot honestly think the gun laws in this country are okay if this man could get his hands on a gun and do with it what he did.

    • Ella, I never said I thought gun laws are ok..don’t presume. I do believe there are a lot of factors – one, such as you mention, is mental health care….

      (random thoughts, no need to answer: How do more laws, more strict laws, or laws aimed at curbing certain behavior change or make it impossible for someone to do something..How do you enforce the law on outlaws?).

      My underlying point here is.. a determined person will find a way to accomplish their goal – no matter what laws are in place.. That’s all.

    • When discussing laws, it has to be taken into account that guns are a very LETHAL weapon. More lethal than a knife, because you can kill people at a distance. When you add clips that hold 60 bullets, that increases. He could never have killed this many people in this manner without a gun specifically. See the comment about the stabbings in China, and the number of people killed.

      As for the NRA, I am not as concerned with their influence on people, rather, their influence on legislators specifically.

      He shot over 100 bullets.

  16. Megan

    I don’t think you’d be saying that if it was your child/mother/husband/friend killed in a mass shooting. If we do nothing, then nothing will change and this will continue. We have to do something. Which should not only include tougher gun laws, but also looking at why these people are slipping through the cracks when it comes to mental health

    • Megan

      That was supposed to be in reply to cowgirl

    • This will continue even if we do something. There will always be violence and a determined person will find a way to accomplish their goals – regardless of the laws in place. The laws are only good for those who abide by them.

    • @cowgirl — So you think we shouldn’t enact any laws because people will break them anyway? That makes no sense. By this reasoning, there should be no laws at all.

    • Uggg that’s not what I’m saying at all. There “has to be” laws to keep some semblance of order for everyone, but simply changing/ammending law(s) won’t fix problem(s) all together.. I apologize as I can not seem to express myself clearly. :)

    • @cowgirl — “simply changing/ammending law(s) won’t fix problem(s) all together”

      yes, sadly, you are right. nothing will ever make all violence go away but IMHO, stricter gun control laws will greatly reduce mass shootings. if ONE life is saved from stricter laws, then it’s worth it.

    • “The laws are only good for those who abide by them.”

      I disagree. Many of the guns used in crimes are illegal…but they are stolen from people who legally bought them. The types of weapons that we legally allow affects the shooting power of weapons used in crimes. I am not against guns, but there is no place in sportsmanship for 60 bullet magazines. This murder fired over 100 bullets, same as in Aurora.

  17. I am the administrator of our little school and we regularly have lockdown and fire drills. The thought of actually having a real lockdown situation such as this terrifies me. My heart goes out to these people and I feel sick that parents have lost their beautiful children.

  18. Sandy!

    When my sisters came home from school today, I hugged them while in tears. This could’ve just as easily been any of our children in Illinois, or anywhere.
    This coupled with the news of 22 children being stabbed in China made me a wreck.
    Something has to change. The argument can be made that guns don’t kill people, but you know what? People with guns kill people. We can’t just take this sitting down any longer.

  19. FK

    I called my senators, representative and the White House to say that I want them to fight for better gun control. There’s also this petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-control-through-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC
    If you’re against gun control, so be it, but if you’re for it, consider signing and/or calling or writing your reps. Politicians won’t tackle this issue unless they know they’ll get support in their fight against the NRA. I actually started crying during my first phone call, but that’s ok. I think all of our hearts are breaking over this horror. Also, if we could change our mental health system, that would be amazing. The investment that would require seems so out of reach of our current national mindset. I hope I’m wrong about that.

  20. JCZ

    This is so sad. I never know what to think with these stories – Do we talk about the shooter, give them the fame they mostly desire from their actions, which are obviously neck-deep in depression or some sort of anger/traumatic issues.

    I also cannot help think that since they were such young children, that this may be the stepping stone to reviewing gun laws that the Govt. is so quick to avoid talking about. In these situations they tend to “mourn for the victims” and it’s “not a place nor time to speak of that yet” and then run away when the story blows over.

    I hope it is the stepping stone – it’s just sad this happened to (hopefully) lead to gun control.

  21. My son is going to have bruises on his back from me hugging him so tight when we got home from school..He may be 16, but he’ll always be my baby..I can’t imagine losing him at any age, but especially when he was a little one like these kids were..It’s just so awful..Aaand now I’m going to go and hug my son again..

  22. This is awful, just awful. It is time to have a serious reasonable conversation about gun control in this country. Other countries do not have the problems with gun violence that we do. Semi-automatic weapons serve no useful purpose other than to kill.

    Now is the time for gun control. Please!

  23. Brittany

    Sad just very sad situation. I work at a daycare and this was the first thing I thought of This can happen anywhere. In fact we had a lock down situation the other day because of a bank robber right down the street. Thank goodness we kind of hidden behind some trees and other buildings. I don’t have children of my own but I tell my children that I love them all the time. You just never know when you are going to take your last breathe. I pray for comfort for these families right now.

  24. So sad. Some people should not have guns.

  25. Heather

    While I have to say that this is utterly devastating and I CANNOT fathom what these families are going through. I have to point out that if this man wanted to carry out this senseless act he would have done it one way or another. THE GUNS WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE! They DID NOT fire themselves! From all reports thus far the firearms belonged and were registered to his MOTHER. And like drug addicts…if they want it bad enough they will find a way to get it, legally or NOT! I am sorry that alot of you feel that the guns and gun laws are to blame, but what about the countless lives that they protect. Funny how you NEVER hear of those stories. The correct answer probably lies in mental health care and NOT gun laws!

    • @Heather — “I am sorry that alot of you feel that the guns and gun laws are to blame, but what about the countless lives that they protect. Funny how you NEVER hear of those stories.”

      We do hear stories of guns protecting people … in the hands of police officers, military service people, etc. You are correct, an unstable person will find a way to hurt others but unlike a baseball bat or a knife, guns only exist to kill people. Why do people associate “gun laws” with “no guns allowed to anyone, ever”. We have strict driving laws in this country, that doesn’t mean people can’t own cars. Nothing will completely eradicate violence but cutting off unfettered access to weapons will help.

    • Heather

      For a couple of different reasons, messing with one amendment opens the doors for others to be tampered with…ie freedom of speech which could profoundly effect the way you make your living. Not only that, but as I said above changing gun laws are only going to effect those of us that follow gun laws. They WILL NOT change attacks from deranged individuals that shoot up schools, malls, movie theatres and the like, because these ARE NOT law abiding citizens. Again, I tell you that the answer is in mental health.

    • @Heather — “For a couple of different reasons, messing with one amendment opens the doors for others to be tampered with”

      The US Constitution is a “living breathing” legal document that is supposed to be “tampered with”. We have multiple amendments because we as a Nation decided to “tamper with” it over the years. Alcohol used to be illegal, it was in the Constitution. Alcohol is no longer illegal because we amended the Constitution. It is completely ridiculous to assume that REGULATING gun use with Laws in someway strips people of their Constitutional rights. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that automatic handguns should be owned by anyone outside of the military. When the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution, the founding fathers intended for a “well regulated militia” to be armed with musket rifles so that we could fight back against those who would invade our country. At the time, the US military was — for lack of a better word — a “mess” and the founding fathers thought it wise for individuals to bear arms to protect themselves from outside invaders (or a corrupt goverment). We don’t use muskets any more, if so, there would be no mass shootings because it would be impossible for a gunman to get off more than 2 shots (max) before having to reload. It’s time we “tamper” with the Constitution so that our country is governed by REASONABLE gun laws. Will this end violence? Of course not. Will it cut down on the number of mass shootings like this, 10000000% YES IT WILL.

    • Heather

      I just reread this Trent and it IS illegal to own an automatic weapon….not only that he didn’t use an automatic weapon.

    • @Heather — “it IS illegal to own an automatic weapon”

      and yet, they can still be sold.

      “he didn’t use an automatic weapon.”

      I didn’t say he did, that is beside the point … which you keep missing.

    • Heather

      Sportsmanship…hunting…feeding your family…protecting your home…NOT GOING TO A PUBLIC PLACE AND SHOOTING IT UP…There are numerous uses for guns.

    • @Heather — Sportsmanship can be achieved using rubber bullets and targets. Protection can be had with items that are not deadly, tasers for example. Hunting can be done with sports rifles, not handguns, not automatic weapons. Except for your sportsmanship point, guns are used to kill in all other instances.

    • Heather

      Trent,

      If you have such weapons for self defense, do you know how close to a perp you have to get in order to hit them with a taser, mace, or a knife? Do you know that some people can fight off the effects of a taser AND mace?

    • @Heather — You can argue for gun use all your want but I’m not buying it.

    • Heather

      That’s your perogative Trent…part of living in this great country is being able to think for yourself…have your own opinion…and the like. God forbid anyone attempts to victimize (in a way that threatens our lives) either one of us. I know my response will be two in the chest and one in the head. You’re opinion is your opinion, and we will obviously never agree with each others views. But I have sincerely enjoyed debating with someone as educated as you are. If it were under different circumstances, a different subject perhaps, it would have been fun.

    • I agree Heather. When it comes down to it and someone tries to harm me? All bets are off …they’re asking for a dirt nap, and I’m prepared to give it to them. I’m not going to cower down and BE a victim. No sympathies for criminals. Not one ounce.

    • “They WILL NOT change attacks from deranged individuals that shoot up schools, malls, movie theatres and the like, because these ARE NOT law abiding citizens.”

      Correct they are not law abiding citizens…but their guns came from people who WERE law abiding citizens. These were his mother’s legal weapons. If a 60 bullet magazine wasn’t legal, she wouldn’t have had it…and neither would he. He wouldn’t have been able to fire over 100 bullets if it wasn’t legal for someone to own them. When a gun is used in a crime, many times it was obtained illegally from someone who DID obtain it legally (ie. stealing guns from law abiding citizens).

    • Heather

      Obviously only some of the posts on this thread are being read…so I’m going to reiterate the points i’ve already made, as well as make a new one…or two. I don’t like talking badly about the deceased but I’m tired of the excuses about mom. I am a mom, I have 4 boys…there are firearms in my home. I have had a stepson with issues. There WERE NOT firearms in my home when he was in our lives and there NEVER would have been. I also have a bank vault type gun safe, which is NEVER opened with my children in the room so they never accidentally see the combo. My children have NEVER held ANY of our firearms. They know the type of safe it is, but they have NO IDEA what type of firearms that are in there or how many. Hell they’ve never seen the inside of this thing. With that being said this woman IMHO was careless at best and an idiot at worst. There is no doubt in my mind that if she was an attentive parent that she was WELL aware of this boys issues.With that being said, there are MANY ways that this could have been carried out by a psychopath….multiple ten round clips for instance. This situation could have been a hell of alot worse if he used another device which I refuse to mention because I don’t know who’s reading and I’m NOT going to plant ideas in ANYONES heads. But this device is NOT a large capacity clip, drum or the like. He had this set in his mind…he was GOING to carry it out…whether with a knife, a homemade weapon, or even an explosive device…PERIOD. Blaming gun laws is easy and quite frankly lazy. If we really want to prevent these issues we need to look at 1. mental healthcare and 2. making our schools more secure. I went to every one of my boys schools today (4 of them) And EVERY SINGLE ONE had glass doors at the entrance. ONLY the elementary school had the doors set so you could get out, but you couldn’t get in unless you went through the office and got buzzed in. Not only that but EVERY ONE OF THEM have portable classrooms…which have NUMEROUS windows…and some NUMEROUS doors. Honestly, I was quite pleased to hear that one of the portables that one of my sons is in in the middle school here is being switched because it has multiple windows and two doors.

    • You might think it is “lazy” to blame gun laws, but the fact of the matter is these events where 10+ people are killed have ALL been committed by guns. I do think that mental health care, school safety, etc. should also be examined at length, without a doubt. But to pretend that gun laws had no effect on these events is to willfully ignore a prominent common trait among all of these events. Guns might not be the reason for the killing, but it certainly makes it easier and ups the body count. A gun allows you to kill many people very quickly from a long distance.

      I am not going to speak for others, but I don’t hear many people saying gun laws are the ONLY problem or that they should all be outlawed. (and I completely agree with your multiple exit comments for classrooms…that would be helpful for fire safety as well).

  26. Heather

    So you don’t think it’s a reasonable thought that someone could BUILD a firearm…even out of lets say…wood? Because I sure you…you’re wrong. Bombs are intended for military use, yet we have figured out a way to build them. ANYTHING can be tampered with to make it a more powerful weapon. You AREN’T going to stop that. I’m not naive to that fact. But I will do whatever necessary to protect my family…PERIOD and I should have the right to do so…as should you. Times are changing…and we do need to change with them…whether it be constitutionally, within the privacy of our own homes, or with what we teach our children. It is my belief that taking away my rights as an American citizen is NOT the way to go…because then I (the law abiding citizen) is then a sitting duck. Maybe gun laws or the 2nd amendment should be tweaked but it shouldn’t be 86′d because WE are the ones that get hurt. There is a MUCH bigger picture here…a lot bigger then gun laws. Speaking of gun laws…let me ask you a question…I’m originally from Lansing but transplanted to Florida. Did you know that Florida does NOT require you to register your firearms? How many mass shootings have occurred in the state of Florida? It’s not the laws…it’s the individuals…the laws are a scapegoat. You can tweak laws…i’m all for that…because there are some absolutely ridiculous ones on the books…but tamper with my constitutional rights and that’s a whole different can of worms. I’m sure if someone went and killed another human being because of something they read in print and everyone started screaming about blogs, magazines newspapers and the like…everyone INCLUDING YOU sir, would start screaming about censorship.

    • @Heather — You miss the point entirely.

      “It is my belief that taking away my rights as an American citizen is NOT the way to go” — No one is advocating taking away your rights. We will always have the right to bear arms in this country, but we are in desperate need of gun control. Please tell me how restricting the ease of gun accessibility is “taking away your rights” as an American citizen.

      As I said, very clearly I thought, there will always be violent behavior from human beings. There may come a day when crazy people must resort to “building firearms out of wood” because they no longer have easy access to deadly and entirely too powerful guns/rifles/uzis and I very much look forward to that day. If violent people must resort to the time-consuming work of fashioning weapons, chances are much more likely that they won’t be able to, say, wake up one day and shoot their mother and then 20 kindergarten children.

    • Heather

      Trent,

      You are not naive by any sense of the word…but you are how do I put this…sweet. Which I absolutely LOVE about you. That and the fact that you can have one hell of a debate with me and not get frustrated..lol. But we as people, especially Americans are stubborn as all get out…and having to create your own weapon isn’t going to stop this shit from happening. Thats looking at the world through rose colored glasses. I WISH that I didn’t live in an area where I have to have guns in my home (and literally a gun safe that is as secure as a bank vault (I wish I could post pictures)) But that’s the world we live in now. And stopping those of us that would NEVER pull a firearm unless someone forced their way into my home and was a threat to me or my children, or making it more costly for me to have the means to protect what i’ve worked so hard for or more importantly my family is insane. Go the route of requiring everyone who applies for a CCWP to at their own expense go through a battery of psychological testing and fuck throw in a lie detector test to see if you can truly find what their true intentions are. And then make these people update said testing every year or two. BUT AGAIN, this isn’t going to stop this shit from happening…people are going to steal guns, build them, or switch to another form of weapon (the knives used in China). It sucks…fuck that it more than sucks…it is disgusting that this is the world we live in now. But….it is.

    • @Heather — “the knives used in China”

      Glad you brought up China. A man stabbed 22 people with knives in a violent attack. None of those people died. This man used a tool as a weapon, a tool that has an intended purpose to cut food, etc. Guns have only one purpose, to kill. Which they do, young and old, every day.

  27. Heather

    And because no one died in the China attacks makes knives ok??? Trent I’m disappointed in that comment…I know you’re better than that.

    • Heather

      Ok maybe I worded it wrong…using a knife makes the act less reprehensible…because no one perished?

    • @Heather — I never said it was ok. Violence of any kind is not ok. Violence will not stop tho. A violent act perpetrated with a knife is less deadly than with a gun. That is my point.

  28. Heather

    You are absolutely right…but they are there…they are ALWAYS going to be there…take a look at “The Fast and the Furious Scandal”. The ONLY people that stricter gun laws will effect are us law obiding citizens…law obiding citizens don’t shoot up public places. There are SO many guns out there you illegal ones at that you will NEVER get rid of them all, thats not realistic. It’s like piracy, look at all the illegal download sites that have been shut down. They still find a way to fullfill their agenda. Thats the way with ANYTHING illegal. I’m sorry Trent, but anything else is a pipe dream and it will NEVER WORK! I wish I could raise my children where shit like this didn’t happen…hell I pray for it, but realistically speaking it can’t happen. That’s like saying that we can live in a drug free world.

    • @Heather — It’s a “pipe dream” because too many people are burying their heads in the sand, believing “nothing can be done”. All of the other industrialized nations in the world (and man less industrialized nations) have enacted strict gun laws that have lessend gun violence. That is a fact. Those other countries haven’t given up their safety for the belief of a “pipe dream”.

    • “take a look at “The Fast and the Furious Scandal”. The ONLY people that stricter gun laws will effect are us law obiding citizens”

      The Fast and Furious was allowed to continue because there are loose gun laws in AZ! It isn’t illegal to buy a gun and then go sell it to someone else the next day. That is why they couldn’t stop them, because even though they were going south of the border…technically they weren’t doing anything illegal.

    • Heather

      KRISSY!!! OMG!!! SWEETIE!!!! I’m sorry but you obviously aren’t familiar with what I’m referring to. Here’s a brief explaination…..

      The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of “gunwalking” sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011.[2][5] These operations were done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.[6] “Gun walking” or “letting guns walk” was a tactic whereby the ATF “purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders.”[7]

    • No need for “sweetie” passive aggressive comments. There is more to the story than what was reported on Fox NEws.

      http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

    • Heather

      I’m sorry I accidentally cut part of it off….the clencher of the whole deal was that our government lost track of these weapons…and they ended up being used to murder our border patrol agents….The 2nd amendment again isn’t the issue…and while it may be…and hopefully will be tweaked…it will never be removed from the constitution.

    • Heather

      I’m sorry I accidentally cut part of it off….the clencher of the whole deal was that our government lost track of these weapons…and they ended up being used to murder our border patrol agents….The 2nd amendment again isn’t the issue…and while it may be…and hopefully will be tweaked…it will never be removed from the constitution.

    • “the ATF “purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders”

      But that is the thing…according to AZ law, having a “straw buyer” isn’t an illegal act. You can legally buy a weapon from a store and then turn around and sell it to someone else. They couldnt’ track or monitor phone calls because the AZ attourney general couldn’t authorize the warrants because there wasn’t anything illegal going on. If they couldn’t track them, they couldn’t follow them into Mexico.

    • I posted a link, but really, there is no need for “sweetie” comments which are clearly passive aggressive. I know what you were referring to, I just have a different take on the story. And all caps, really?

      If the comment with the link doesn’t get approved by moderators, google the article tiled The Truth About Fast and Furious in Fortune Magazine. There is quite a bit more to the story than what Fox News reported.

    • Heather

      Wow! Thats the first time i’ve EVER been called passive aggressive…I’ve always taken pride in being a loud, outspoken, opinionated Italian…lol. In all seriousness, when I say that I say that out of gentility…respectfully. I have yet to attack anyone on this thread and I don’t plan on stooping. I also have NO problem saying exactly what I mean…I’m actually pretty good at it. I’m sorry you find the need to be so defensive, maybe it’s because you jumped into a conversation that you obviously are clueless about? And yes THAT remark was intended to be bitchy…lol. I also didn’t post in all caps…just the first three words…might want to have your monitor checked. With that being said….I LOVE LOVE LOVE a good debate…with someone who can debate with me on FACTS…like Trent has done insanely well, and quite frankly impressed the hell out of me. Anything else is again, quite frankly, boring. So if you want to discuss/debate this with me…i’m here…love a fair challenge…which you have proven this is not…so SWEETIE…go read up…and educate yourself a little bit and I’ll be GLAD to have a battle of wits with you.

    • If you were sticking to facts, there would be no defense needed. Calling me clueless is another way you degrade yourself, instead of respectfully disagreeing. Read the article I mentioned, and get back to me about what the facts in this issue might be. I am just asking you to consider another perspective. You shouldn’t feel so threatened by that. The fact that you see this as a “battle of wits” says a lot about your need for validation, because this is simply a discussion about current events…not about personal achievements or intelligence.

    • Heather

      And you jumping me for calling you sweetie…as a term of endearment…like I do many…rather than being snide or disrespectful shows what about your character exactly? And if YOU read what I posted you would have realized that I didn’t say anything about defense other than the fact that you were acting defensive. I’m not threatened by ANYONES opinion, as I stated I love to debate. The reason being is because I find that is a great learning tool. I see you attacking me, for lord only knows why as making this a battle of wits. I have yet to have a battle of wits with anyone on this thread…why because we have all expressed our opinions to one another while showing respect to one another. But respect is earned not given, and if you disrespect me, or talk down to me you WILL get it back ten fold…thats just the way it is. I don’t debate issues I don’t understand, and I have and always will fight for what I believe is right. I personally find that attribute in a person quite admirable. I don’t however admire attacking someone out of assumption the least bit admirable, in fact I find it tacky.

    • Heather

      Krissy,

      I did as you asked and read the article you posted. There’s one major problem with this. It verifies EVERYTHING I said to you except that 5…just FIVE ATF agents (who of course weren’t worried about reputation or losing their jobs) say that it’s all bs they didn’t let guns go knowingly to Mexican cartels in hopes of getting the “big fish”. How come the ATF itself isn’t doing anything to disprove this entire operation? Because they CAN’T. The fact is they sent these guns into Mexico to do one of a couple things 1. track down the big fish…or 2. make their jobs a bit easier and just let these guys kill each other. In the end we have one dead border patrol agent, americans that have to worry if they want to vacation in Mexico, and the VERY high likelihood that some of these make their way back to American soil. Again, just another reason why my proud American behind is protected! And again, further proof as to why the 2nd amendment isn’t going anywhere…it doesn’t benefit the powers that be in D.C.

    • I am not attacking you, I didn’t jump you. I put in a different view point on the F&F in a very mild way, and you came back with disrespect. I am not getting feisty with you, I think I am being very respectful. I am not talking down to you…but I am trying to talk you down.

      I am sad it has devolved to this when this is a thread about dead children. There are just bigger issues at hand. The main point of my original comment was to simply disagree that more gun laws just hurt the law abiding citizen. As some accounts show, stricter gun laws would have allowed the ATF officers and AG in AZ to have more easily tracked those guns and stopped them from getting across the border.

    • Heather

      Krissy,

      I called you sweetie…sincerely…and you called me passive aggressive. You also commented on the fact that I typed three words in caps…like it really meant ANYTHING. You aren’t the only person on this thread that I’ve called sweetie, yet you’re the one that had a problem with it and saw it as a negative. I’ve also typed words in alot of my posts in caps…not as a way of yelling at someone but as a form of emphasis, and you are the ONLY one that had a problem with it. Neither of those things had anything to do with anything any of us were discussing. Obviously, you’re looking for drama…which i’m not. But I’m not going to be disrespected either. Do NOT try to spin this to where you’re the victim…that’s bull…put on your big girl pants and admit that you got pretty aggressive with your post to me. Otherwise this is the LAST time I’m going to feed into your childish game. If you have something intelligent to bring to the table…BRING IT! Otherwise, take your ball and go home.

      As for the topic at hand…your opinion is your opinion, you are entitled to it as I am mine. Part of being a free American right? But when it comes to your facts, they are quite twisted. Oh and yeah btw…I despise Fox News.

  29. cutitout

    20 babies a lying dead in a morgue because an apparantly known mentally ill person took a couple of guns (reportedly bought by his mother who knew of his issues) and opened fire on them when they were trying to learn their abc’s. We need reform with gun laws as well as identifying and treating mental illness. Theres plenty blame to go around.

  30. Heather

    You are right…mainly on his mother…but she paid the ultimate price right? MOST gun owners…at least those that own legally..would NEVER EVER…even entertain the idea of doing such a thing.

  31. So awful. There were a lot of incorrect “facts” to begin with… I guess that’s what comes with the way our society is these days (and I’m the say way… I want to know right away). But whatever… it is a very tragic and sad event. A school should be a place people can go to be safe and not have to worry about things like this happening.

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