Comments on: Protesters Take To The Streets Of California To Oppose Discrimination

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By: Proud Mormon

Proud Mormon — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:03:17 +0000

no one deserves to get targeted. ITS OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A STAND FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN… but do so maturely and with class… and without being totally rude and discriminatory. its totally hypocritical.

By: It's Trent, Bitch!

It's Trent, Bitch! — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:22:35 +0000

Actually, the Mormon Church spent millions of their tax-free money on the political campaign to pass Prop 8. That is the reason the Mormon Church has been targeted. I understand there may be legal action to have the Mormon Church lose it’s tax-free status because of its active political involvement. There is no discrimination in the protests against the Mormon Churches political involvement … if they want to participate in politics, they have to accept the ramifications of that involvement.

By: Proud Mormon

Proud Mormon — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:03:04 +0000

there is no win/win. its so sad. we would never do anything against gay people. BUT im not saying other people do not. its wrong. but Mormons have gotten a lot of flack through this and all we’ve done is suport our beliefs. as people can disagree, they cannot and should not harass/harm people or sacred places of worship. the fact that people are afraid to go to churches/temples because of this is wrong. You guys are fighting AGAINST discrimination by… discriminating? its very counterproductive. i wish there was a win/win situation but its apparent that someone will be unhappy no matter what.

By: truepenny

truepenny — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:43:29 +0000

Proud Mormon,

Thank you for opening my eyes to the fact that all the incidents of violence, hate and prejudice against gay people never happened. We’ve all been fooled.

I in no way support violence – those people who have caused harm to the Mormon Church or any other group/person should be punished. But as individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. I just think your “statistics” are a bit skewed.

By: Proud Mormon

Proud Mormon — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:44:06 +0000

Assumed Discrimination against gays:
-unable to be legally married in the state of California

Actual Discrimination against the Mormon Church in the last 2 months:
-property evasion
-theft
-destruction of property
-prejudge
-hate

I urge you all to look at the big picture and realize who is really being discriminated right now.

Don’t be a hypocrite

By: John

John — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:36:23 +0000

Well spoken… we are NOT a mob mentality and this will not stand. Victory will be ours.

By: Harriet

Harriet — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:16:25 +0000

It is disgusting that this was able to happen, I mean it sincerely when I say that my heart breaks.

By: nae

nae — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:00:11 +0000

& wish I was a resident of Cali — i’d be signing that petition….

By: nae

nae — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:59:19 +0000

i was also livid about the vote on prop8. what a joke. majority should NOT be voting on something such as gay marriage. it is not up to the public. & the ‘sanctity’ of marriage? is that why so many ‘marriages’ don’t work out? i personally believe that if you love someone & want to be with them – do it b/c you want to, not because you ‘have to’ b/c a piece of paper says so.
keep fighting trent!

By: Marie

Marie — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:43:58 +0000

There’s a petition going round online, it’s at about 220,000 already – you should definitely post it, I’m sure it would increase tenfold.

http://www.petitiononline.com/.....ition.html

By: Gel

Gel — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:32:16 +0000

Hi Trent! I’m from the Philippines, a very Christian nation, and I just want to say, VERY WELL SAID. I admire your ability to put sense into words effortlessly and intelligently.

BCgirl, I agree with you completely. My husband agrees that prop 8 shouldn’t even be up to the public.

By: Ria

Ria — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:00:31 +0000

Trent about your comment- “Can you imagine what the outcry would be if Atheists banded together to vote away the rights of the religious?”- don’t hate on the atheists yeah? We’re people too! :) Ironically the religious were mainly the ones who ‘banded together’ to vote away the rights of the GLBT community…

By: BCgirl

BCgirl — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:51:13 +0000

What is everyone’s problem with letting gay and lesbian couples get married?

I’m from Canada and we’ve had it legal here for quite some time and I hate to break it to all you nay-sayers…. we have not collapsed as a society.

The word “Marriage” is just that… a word! No one, especially heterosexuals, own the rights to a word. What gives us the right to define what constitutes a marriage?Hate-mongering and threats?
Marriage doesn’t need our protection.

When I have children I am going to teach them (like mine taught me) that some kids have two moms, some kids have two dads, some kids have one mom and one dad, some kids just have a mom and some kids just have a dad. T

There are all types of families and NOBODY has the right to tell a loving couple that their family doesn’t count.

Prop 8 should never have been an option to vote, things like this should not be left to the general population..

What exactly is everyone afraid of ?

By: Claire

Claire — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:43:29 +0000

It’s funny how people are comparing people who voted yes like nazis. It’s ridiculous and rude.

By: sjgal

sjgal — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:39:59 +0000

Why can people just stop crying about the outcome, this is a democracy and the majority has spoken.

By: calirific

calirific — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:15:00 +0000

sfmom for the record i do understand what you are saying i get your point, i just disagree with it as you disagree with mine but i’d like to thank you for being civil. :)

By: calirific

calirific — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:13:17 +0000

sfmom why do YOU care what the definition of marriage is? How does slightly altering it affect you? I’m happily married, and I don’t see how someone else’s marriage affects me. It doesn’t infringe on my rights as a citizen of California or the US, and your wrong the current law for civil unions does not equal that of marriage. I should know, people I love and care about have had these issues since the civil unions have been in place here in CA. I sorry you and your family have been personally affected by the negativity but isn’t that the same as people who were targeted and attacked during the civil rights movements. What happened to you and your loved ones was wrong but nonetheless it isn’t a valid reason to condemn a whole community.

By: sfmom

sfmom — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:11:27 +0000

I am talking about the most vocal factions of the community (the parts we hear from most – you know the old adage “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”).
The sweeping generalizations I’ve heard from select anti-8 supporters include: 5 million yes voters = bigots. There’s been a huge rash of hate speech against religious groups that supported 8 and many, many things said comparing people of faith to Nazis. Like it or not, not ever person who voted yes on 8 did so out of unadulterated hatred of gay people. Some just believe that marriage should continue to be what it has historically been, a gender-based, family institution between a man and a woman.
Thanks for quoting me though. :)

By: calirific

calirific — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:03:26 +0000

sfmom these were your words that generalized a community words that accused a whole community of doing that which only a few have done: —————>

“I believe that the gay community would get a lot further in their arguments for “equal” marriage if their actions didn’t make it obvious that equal really means superior. Stop suing doctors who don’t want to perform IVF on lesbians – there are plenty of MD’s who are MORE than happy to do the procedure. Stop suing chapels, pastors and other groups for not performing /hosting ceremonies (it’s happened in the US and Canada). Stop suing businesses like those photographers in NM for not photographing gay weddings. STOP pushing gay marriage and gay relationships on small school children (King & King, What’s in a Family, gay marriage field trips). That topic should rightfully be left to parents to cover as they see fit.

I believe CA and US voters would believe you a lot more if this kind of litigious aggression stopped. If you really want “live and let live” then let churches and pastors and families and businesses have their freedom of conscience and association back.

In San Francisco, there are a number of churches that have experienced VIOLENT persecution from the gay community (members of the radical gay community invading church services and urinating on the foyer, fire bombing a pastor’s home, threatening their children, physically blocking members from entering their sanctuary for worship). This is absolutely unacceptable. If you want to use words like “fairness” “tolerance” and “equality” you need to make sure those things are embodied in your treatment of others.

I believe Californians saw more hate and bigotry coming from the No on 8 campaign than the Yes side. “

By: sfmom

sfmom — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:46:12 +0000

Todd, I am sorry that you were a victim of violence. There’s no excuse for it on either side of the debate. Period. Nothing justifies it.
But those incidents that I pointed out did happen and there’s a big sense that they WERE justified because those people were “fighting for their rights” and were angry that those churches were opposed to the gay lifestyle or agenda.
I do know empathy, I realize that the people on the other side of the gay marriage debate are just that, they are people. But I am not trying to say who you can and cannot love. My yes vote on Prop 8 wasn’t about preventing you from forming a relationship with anyone, it was about protecting children, families, businesses and churches from persecution based on their beliefs. I voted this way because I CAN and DO think and can connect the dots regarding the legal implications of the debate. I’ve also done extensive research about the impacts of gay marriage in other states and countries and can see what has happened there.
Just as I don’t assume that every gay person I see on the streets of SF is out to sue every single person that gets in their way, you should not assume that every person who votes for the traditional definition of marriage is an ignorant and bigoted backwater troglodyte who has no empathy and cannot think.

By: sfmom

sfmom — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:48:12 +0000

You want to accuse me of grouping people together? I am not making sweeping generalizations. Regarding the incidents in SF, I’m talking about very specific cases that are well documented (and these are not incidents that received much, if any, coverage from the mainstream news media, they are incidents I know of because they either happened to myself, my family or people I know firsthand).
The legal cases are also well documented and a quick search on google will verify each and every one. I am not saying that all gay people who want to get married are like this, but I am saying that there is a very loud and outspoken faction within the gay community that is using the court system (and taking advantage of an overabundance of activist judges) to force their agenda on the public, instead of taking the case to the people and making their arguments in reasonable and civil ways.
The current laws of California provide adequate means to protect against each and every problem you’ve cited to justify marriage. It is either incredibly ignorant or an outright lie to say that domestic partnership does not confer these rights. The CA legislature has taken great pains to craft policies that would extend these protections to domestic partners.
“Assembly Bill 26 passed in 1999 established the statewide domestic partner registry and conferred a handful of rights which included hospital visitation and the right of state and local employers the ability to offer health care coverage to the domestic partners of their employees. Assembly Bill 25 was passed in 2001 and extended the rights of domestic partners to include the right to make medical decisions, the right to inherit when partner dies without a will, the right to use state step-parent adoption procedures, the right to use sick leave to care for a domestic partner and the right to be appointed as administrator of estate. In 2003 Assembly Bill 205 was passed, basically extending all of the state-level rights and responsibilities of marriage to domestic partners. The rights and responsibilities associated with Assembly Bill 205 went into effect on Jan. 1, 2005. ”
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/c.....atutes.htm
So – the debate simply isn’t about providing protections that don’t currently exist – it is about rewriting the basic and traditional definition of marriage.
The people of California have exercised their constitutional right to AMEND the Constitution and this should be accepted. You will get much further in the culture “war” by engaging in reasoned and truthful debate than ramming your agenda through the courts against the will of the people.

By: calirific

calirific — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:37:23 +0000

certainly in a situation like this there will be people on both sides that make both sides look bad, but it’s comments like sfmom that group a bunch of people together and blame everyone in that group for the actions of a few. This sort of talk keeps the hate around. Of course the news is going to report the worst of the worst, that’s entertainment, it keeps their ratings up but if perhaps people ACTUALLY took the time to look at the whole picture you’d see that the majority of the protests and people protesting were peaceful. CA supreme court didn’t make the rights of the GLBT community superior to the rest of us it put them on the same playing field. It gave them the right to see loved ones in a hospital, the right to inherit property without being taxed just like straight couples have, it gave them the right to not have that property taking away after their loved one’s passed, by a second or third cousin because in the eyes of the current law that is next of kin, it gave them the right to keep their children if a loved one passes. Civil Unions don’t extend these rights, but Marriage does. Our country has come so far yet has so much further to go. People fight so hard for the rights of GLBT community because they feel like we’re fighting the same old fight. This is the same fight that our country has been fighting for centuries just with a different face; women’s rights, African Americans rights, minority rights. African Americans also weren’t allowed to marry in our country once upon a time. Our country is so desperately trying to progress and some people just refuse to let it grow. One day, perhaps, we can be civil towards one another.

By: sfmom

sfmom — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:31:52 +0000

It’s astonishing to me that this debate has become about “taking away rights” when those “rights” didn’t even exist until 8 months ago. The decision by the CA Supreme Court this year did nothing less than elevate the rights of a certain group of people above every other right known to the people of California. Despite claims to the contrary, the passage of Prop 8 WOULD endanger churches (pastors who refuse to perform gay marriage ceremonies or allow those ceremonies to take place in their churches), the rights of parents to educate their children as they see fit and countless other areas.

I voted yes on prop 8 to protect those things. The “sanctity” of marriage has been so badly erroded by the straight community – that’s a separate issue that needs to be addressed by churches and families. No fault divorce, infidelity and ridiculous stunts like Britney’s 55-hr marriage don’t help the institution at all.

I believe that the gay community would get a lot further in their arguments for “equal” marriage if their actions didn’t make it obvious that equal really means superior. Stop suing doctors who don’t want to perform IVF on lesbians – there are plenty of MD’s who are MORE than happy to do the procedure. Stop suing chapels, pastors and other groups for not performing /hosting ceremonies (it’s happened in the US and Canada). Stop suing businesses like those photographers in NM for not photographing gay weddings. STOP pushing gay marriage and gay relationships on small school children (King & King, What’s in a Family, gay marriage field trips). That topic should rightfully be left to parents to cover as they see fit.

I believe Californians saw more hate and bigotry coming from the No on 8 campaign than the Yes side.

It’s been clear, especially over the last several years, that tolerance is a one-way street and if you want the debate over gay marriage to change, that has to change too.

By: supersue

supersue — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:13:12 +0000

I live in Phoenix and am so embarassed to admit it after the gay marriage vote in Arizona. keep up the fight guys! it’ll have to come sooner or later – it’s only right. best wishes – LUURVE you Trent, Sue