Protesters Take To The Streets Of California To Oppose Discrimination
Last night thousands of protesters took to the streets of LA and Sacramento, CA (among other cities) to protest the passing of California Proposal 8. My friends and I joined the folks in West Hollywood while Pink reader Courtney participated with her friends in Sacramento. This fight for equal rights is not going to end any time soon. While the US made great strides in Tuesday’s election of Barack Obama as our new President, the passing of proposals in California, Arizona, Arkansas and Florida to strip away the rights of the GLBT community shows how much work we have yet to do in order to create a more perfect union and offer liberty and justice for all Americans. Here are some of photos my friends and I took at last night’s protest rally in West Hollywood:
Three groups have petitioned the California Supreme Court challenging the passage of Proposition 8, contending the ballot initiative banning gay and lesbian marriages was “improperly used.” Californians passed the measure 52.5 percent to 47.5 percent in Tuesday’s general election, countering a state Supreme Court ruling in May that said the state constitution guarantees gay and lesbian couples the right to marry. Passage of Proposition 8 sent protesters into the streets of Los Angeles on Wednesday. The three groups are asking for an immediate stay or an injunction to prevent the initiative from taking effect. They said “such radical changes” as outlawing gay marriage cannot be made by ballot initiative, but must, “at a minimum, go through the state legislature first.” The American Civil Liberties Union, Lambda Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights argued in papers filed with the high court that the ballot initiative process “was improperly used in an attempt to undo the constitution’s core commitment to equality for everyone.” It did that “by eliminating a fundamental right from just one group — lesbian and gay Californians,” the groups said in a written statement. The organizations filed the legal challenges on behalf of Equality California and six same-sex couples who did not marry before Tuesday’s election, but would like to be able to marry now. In a separate statement released Wednesday, the three groups stated their conviction, which is shared by California’s attorney general, that California must honor the marriages of the 18,000 lesbian and gay couples who have already married … About 750 to 1,000 protesters staged a half-hour sit-in outside CNN’s Los Angeles bureau on Sunset Boulevard. The demonstrators chanted slogans and banged on the building’s glass doors but then dispersed without incident. Hundreds also gathered on the steps of San Francisco’s City Hall, according to an AP report. Some held candles and carried signs that read, “We all deserve the freedom to marry.” Talk show host Ellen DeGeneres said she is “saddened beyond belief” over the proposed amendment. DeGeneres, who wed actress Portia de Rossi in August, said in a statement Wednesday to The AP that she, “like millions of Americans, felt like we had taken a giant step toward equality” by electing Barack Obama as president. DeGeneres says that with the passage of California’s Proposition 8, “we took a giant step away.”
Some celebs came out to the rally last night to show their support … including author Christopher Rice, actress Pauley Perrette, comedienne Wanda Sykes and, of course, my boy Lance Bass:
Pink reader Courtney sent in some photos from the peaceful candlelight vigil that took place in Sacramento, CA last night:
She writes: Last night I went out to support my gay friends at the vigil in Sacramento. I have to say, it was the most moving experience I’ve EVER had. The mood was bitter-sweet, yet hopeful, because this fight is very far from being over. The crowd of about 1,000 was very peaceful, and managed to scare away the 5 of 6 Yes on 8-ers that appeared across the street. The word is that another one is happening tonight at 7, so everyone come out!
Organizers in San Francisco, CA are planning a protest march in that city tomorrow night:
Please invite all of your friends. Make your own signs!
Date: Friday, November 7th.
Time: Gathering at 5:30, march will begin shortly after.
Place: From Civic Center (Market and 7th) to Dolores Park.
It is a scary prospect that some people believe that they can merely vote away the rights of a group of people just because they are the majority. Under those circumstances, any group of people could have their rights stripped away by a mere popular vote. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if Atheists banded together to vote away the rights of the religious? Proponents of the discrimination against the GLBT community may believe that they have won some battle by stripping away same-sex marriage rights — even tho their marriage rights were never in danger — but I know ABSOLUTELY that marriage equality will be enjoyed by all citizens of this country some day. It will happen. I know this because Justice demands that it will happen. Freedom from discrimination is not easily won … but it can and will be won. There is much work to be done but I am very much looking forward to the day when the same people who flooded the streets in protest last night will, once again, flood the streets in celebration of the vindication of their rights. It will happen.
Folks interested in learning more about the fight for marriage equality can find up-to-date info at MarriageEquality.org
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Tags: Proposition 8, Same-Sex Marriage
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November 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! TO BAD THERE ISN”T THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY IN AZ!!!
November 6th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Hi Trent,
For the record, I voted No on 8. I think the problem is that marriage is defined as between a man and a woman historically. I believe that everyone should have equal rights but does a union between a man and a man need to be called marriage? That question may be what is causing the greatest debate. Anyway, I’m pretty sure this prop will be overturned, they usually are……
Best,
Cal
November 6th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
As a married female in the State of California, I proudly voted NO on Prop 8. So did my husband. While our hearts are broken over the outcome of this battle, they continue to beat strongly with hope that this fight will continue. In our country, there is a history of oppression and the denial of the civil rights of those who are different. And in our history, oppression does NOT win. KEEP. THIS. FIGHT. GOING! All GLBT people deserve the same rights and respect that straights do. This is about more than marriage. This is *truly* life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Calgirl — historically, African Americans used to be defined as property. There were even laws that defined how much slaves were worth. History has a way of changing when Justice demands it.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I live in CT. We had a question on our ballots that would have allowed out state constituition to be changed by committee thus endangering many civil rights esp gay marriage. Fortunatly, it was voted down. I don’t understand how something that went through the legal system can just be overturned in one day. A gay couple from my town was one of the couples to fight for the legalization of gay marriage in CT. It took a long time. Why leave these decisions up to the public who have there own prejudices. Decisions should be based on the constituition not personal opinion. I for one am proud of my state and very dissapointed in California.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I think it’s absurd that something like human rights gets put to referendum. Alycia is right; these things shouldn’t be based on personal opinion. I thought protecting minority groups from public prejudice is part of what good government is supposed to do. Good luck – I certainly hope it gets overturned.
And if it doesn’t…come to Canada! :)
November 6th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
petition to re-open prop h8. pass it on all!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/seg5130/
November 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I may not be from Cali, but I ensured that my friends who were registered for Cali voted no on their absentee ballots (which still haven’t been fully tallied I believe). I don’t think government has any place in defining marriage at all; they are staring down the barrel of two wars and economic failure. Can anyone else say bread and circuses?
November 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
this is the first time that i’ve commented on your blog. i’ve realized that we disagree about some things. but i come here everyday because it’s entertaining. do i have the right to tell someone that the way they are living is wrong? no. do i agree with gay marriage? no. i believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. but it’s not my place to tell someone that they can’t be married. i wouldn’t like it if someone told me that my husband and i couldn’t be married. my ex-best friend is a lesbian. the reason that we’re not friends anymore is not because she’s a lesbian. it’s because she was trying to push her beliefs on me and telling me that i was wrong. i never told her she was wrong in her beliefs and opinions…she shouldn’t have done that to me. everybody is different and has different beliefs and opinions about everything. a lot of people probably don’t like me because i don’t agree with gay marriage but it’s my life. i’ll believe what i want to believe. if a man wants to marry a man or a woman marry a woman that’s their decision but that doesn’t mean that i have to agree with it. just like you don’t have to agree with me not believing in gay marriage.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Too bad I work tomorrow night. I want to go to the SF protest.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I am very happy with most of the election results, but saddened that while we have come along way against racism, we still have a long way to go on sexual orientation.
I wish for a world where equality for all is a fact. Remember, our great nation was founded on separation of church and state!!
I do not know the author of this, but I truly believe what he is saying. I do know he was responding to an e-mail his church pastor had sent the congregation urging people to vote against gay marriage.
“I certainly understand what the Bible says about homosexuality. However, the “marriage amendment” has nothing to do with the Church. It does not propose to make Christian churches accept gay marriage. It has only to do with the State of Florida. Yes, heterosexual marriage is a Christian principle and Christians should hold true to that. So is worshiping Jesus as our Savior. We are not supposed to have other idols. I don’t think that we are pushing to have a constitutional amendment banning idols, destroying non-Christian places of worship, and making everyone worship Jesus. Then why do I want to force everybody to have a Christian marriage? If its not against someone’s religion to have a gay marriage, why shouldn’t they be able to have a civil union, have a monogamous relationship and receive STATE, not Church, benefits? Why can’t people be able to get affordable health care benefits if they have a civil union? The Bible talks much more about helping those who are not in power: in Biblical days it was widows, orphans, and foreigners. I am no Biblical scholar, but I think there is more discussion about taking care of what we are given, or stewardship, than gay marriage. So why does the religious right monopolize “Christian values” and only talk about divisive issues such as gay marriage and abortion, while ignoring helping the poor, the environment, and immigration reform?”
November 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Samantha –
I agree with you on pushing ones beliefs onto others. That is why I am TOTALLY against people voting against gay marriage. By voting against gay marriage people are pushing their beliefs onto others.
Trent I too believe that one day (hopefully very soon) we will see the legalization of all marriages. We need to look back at history and see that we were founded on Separation of Church and State!!!
November 6th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I agree 100% with offended Christian… it is a priviledge not a right. I hope that never changes.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
MessengerforGod and offendedchristian, lust and adultery, like homosexuality, are also sins in the Bible. does that mean we should also ban pornography and extramarital affairs? but we dont ban those because they are considered basic rights we all have as human beings to choose how we live our lives. homosexuals are not getting married to to “legitimize” their behavior. they get married to celebrate the love, trust, and intimacy between them. its ridiculous that jamie lynn spears and bristol palin, silly teenagers who dont think about the consequences of their decisions, can marry because they have vaginas and their baby daddies have penises. this ban on same-sex marriage is like african-americans having to sit in the back of the bus, we will all look back one day and marvel at how backwards this situation is; hopefully that day will not be too far in the future.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
In reality I feel that the group discriminated against most in this country, is the gay community. I feel like gay people have the right to love and be loved and marry who they want.
I feel that it is wrong to give someone a right and then take it away.
People use the argument of ” we must uphold the sanctity of marriage” but that’s crap. I know so many straight people who don’t take marriage seriously.And there are so many divorces and so many stories of infidelity.
I have to wonder, what happened to the idea of the seperation of church and state? Ultimately, this IS about God and religion and it IS effecting the way that a state treats some of its citizens rights. It either is going to be seperate or it’s not, but just using God when it’s convenient is wrong. I’m sorry to all the people in California who have had their rights taken away.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Wow!! I’m a Floridian and just became a citizen I didn’t vote cause I was in a move and lost both my voting application and my head but I cannot believe Florida was involve in such a bigot thing. I agree it shouldn’t be left to people, its no ones business what we do. But I’m not surprise, so we got a black president big whop, blacks can marry, they can be on politics when’s the last time some one in politic was gay and able to stay. If our own government and military are bigot what can we expect of people. Ellen said it right the elections were one step forward two steps back.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I am from the South and many people I have talked to that voted against gay marriage say they did so as it would lessen my marriage by allowing gays to marry. I don’t understand how a gay couple getting married could lessen the marriage I have with my husband. Someone else’s union has nothing to do with me and does not diminish what I have with my husband. I hope every state changes their laws that all people should be allowed to get married and have the same rights. Whether people marry or have domestic partner legal agreements, we should all have the same rights. I cannot wait for that day to come. Keep up the fight!
November 6th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
When I heard Prop 8 had passed I was livid.
Just fight and fight and fight some more, and when you get tired still keep fighting. Sometimes doing the right thing has to be forced upon society, like the civil rights movement of the ’60s. Contrary to what Prop 8’s passing suggests I truly believe that there are more people who support or have no real animus towards gay marriage than there are those who do, they simply abstained from voting either way.
November 6th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
You say:
“It is a scary prospect that some people believe that they can merely vote away the rights of a group of people just because they are the majority. Under those circumstances, any group of people could have their rights stripped away by a mere popular vote.”
I say:
My rights to keep my hard earned money were voted away so…
November 6th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE…..Just find another name for gay marriage…..but have the same exact rights as straight marriage. Come on gay people you are creative..just come up with a different name. Marriage is a bad word anyway. Just look what straight people have done to it.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Catherine – Call it something else??
So Separate but Equal… you must agree that having a white bathroom and black bathroom is okay, and having a white water fountain and a black water fountain isokay…
Marissa – I’m guessing you make more than $250,000 per year, congratulations on your success.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
This is just ridiculous. It’s nice to see that we took two steps forward and about twelve backward on Tuesday. The irony is that the african americans were the ones who voted most heavily for prop 8. 7 out of 10 voted for prop 8. I just don’t get that AT ALL.
And it’s quite conceivable that a married couple could make 250k together Amy from Fla. You think that Obama is going to be able to ONLY tax people that make 250k and up more? Ha, right! Look for it to sink down to 200k, then 150k.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
1. They say, “Homosexuality is not natural.”
Yeah, like breast implants, epidurals, eyeglasses, and birth control.
2. They say, “Gay marriages are not valid because they cannot produce children.”
Then marriage should be illegal for infertile couples and old people, right?
3. They say, “Gay parents will raise gay children.”
That must be true, since straight parents only raise straight children…
4. They say, “The sanctity of marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed.”
Because Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. They say, “Marriages have always been between a man and woman and that shouldn’t change.”
Oh of course, and blacks shouldn’t marry whites, and women are the property of their husbands, and divorce is still illegal.
6. They say, “Gay marriage is not supported by religion.”
The values of one religion should be imposed on the entire country. That’s why we live in America right?
7. They say, “Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay.”
Yep, and hanging around tall people will make you tall.
8. They say, “Children can never succeed without a male and female role model at home.”
Good point, so the next step would be to forbid single parents to raise children.
9. They say, “Gay marriage will change the foundation of society.”
True, we could never adapt to new social norms like cars or longer lifespans.
10. They say, “It can’t be a marriage. Call it a civil union with the same benefits but different name.”
Makes perfect sense, since “separate but equal” schools and bathrooms for African Americans worked just as well.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
the problem is that “MARRIAGE” itself offers rights that are not offered by any sort of civil union. It is NOT equal and that is why people fight for the right to marry. It baffles me that some people can’t seem to understand that or perhaps refeuse to, and it baffles me that nobody has came up with a legitimate reason why same sex couples shouldn’t get married other than “I feel that a marriage is between a man and a woman”, or ” it’s a christian thing.” I think marriage has lost its meaning over the centuries, and that’s a shame. Marriage is and should always be a union between 2 loving people who enter the union and promise to commit to each other, life and family. (well that’s the short version) If you want to talk about history well marriage hasn’t been restricted to one religion or man and women in the overall history of human beings, believe it or not. If you want to talk about religion well there is suppose to be a separation of church and state which allows the church to perform it’s business without having to break it’s value structure. it’s great that people are different and have their own opinions about the world, everyone should, but that really isn’t a good reason to dictate how others should live. I wonder why a lot of the same people (not all) who are anti same sex marriage are also some of the same people who are worried that Government is too involved in peoples lives. It seems that’s exactly what they want. My husband and I voted NO on 8, It’s not my job to be involved in other peoples lives and how they conduct t it. Nobody is being hurt by this, marriage affects only the couple and the people who are involved in the lives of the couple, not people the couple have never met or heard of and saying that it does and that it’s the business of the public is an offense to marriage itself. Heterosexual couples would be just as offended if someone disrespected their way of life. I know I would, and I find it hard to believe that someone could intelligently argue against that point. I respect all opinions, nobody has to agree with the way other people conduct their lives, and nobody’s saying you have to, but something just aren’t public business.
November 6th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Good for you, Trent! Rest assured that many of us straight people (in fact, most?? ugh, probably not) support equal rights for ALL. Gay rights are the civil rights movement of our time. I hope our kids look back in 50 years and go, “What?! You didn’t let gay people get married?!? That’s crazy.”
November 6th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Keep up the fight!
In this day and age when people are losing their jobs, the economy is bleeding barrels of red ink, and soldiers are dying overseas, we have more important places to expend our collective energies than to ban gay marriage. This issue should be a non-issue. People should be allowed to spend their lives with whomever they wish, and the government shouldn’t dictate the rules – it’s nobody’s business…..
Keep the faith and continue the fight for gay rights.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Comparing gay marriage rights to seperate but equal makes no historical sense. What some are suggesting is having all of the same rights as being married but a simple terminological difference. Seperate but equal was not just a term but a set of rules.
Th reason I say this is because of the poorly fought battle in California. I personally believe if gays in California first tried to gain equal rights through civil unions, people would not be so hesistant to vote for it. All of the religious organizations fighting against gay rights are fighting against usage of the term mostly. What matters more, the rights or the term? I’m not saying to give up the fight for civil unions to be called marriage, but even Joe Biden said that he and Obama are against ‘gay marriage.’ You’re fighting for acceptance of an idea in a society that is still fighting vigorously against it.
November 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
To paraphrase Canadian ex-Prime Minister Paul Martin, the rights of minority groups should *never* be subject to the whim of the majority. That is why a popular vote on gay marriage is not right. The role of the majority is to protect and uphold minority rights. Also, calling a gay marriage a “civil union” makes it a second-class marriage. Which it’s not. Obviously.
Google for “Paul Martin” and “gay marriage bill opening speech” and you’ll find one of the best thought out, tear-inducing speeches on supporting gay marriage. My husband and I were fortunate enough to be able to attend the last debate on gay marriage before it was legalised in Canada – a very proud moment for this straight couple.
November 6th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I just can’t understand how someone wouldn’t want gay people to be able to marry…I honestly cannot get my head around how so many people feel it is their right to vote on this. The choice to marry or not should be up to the two individuals involved and no one else.
I’m proud to live in Massachusetts where gay marriage is legal but the rest of the country really needs to follow suit.
November 6th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Just thought everyone (especially the Chicago People) would like to know about this if they don’t already know.
http://www.gayliberation.net/religiousbigotry/2008/0828protestdobson.html
James Dobson -a religious freak- is being inducted to the radio hall of fame or something. He’s highly against gay rights and even opened a camp that helps “cure” homosexuality.
So on Saturday the 8th, a bunch of groups are protesting outside of the hotel he’s staying in. He does not need an award for being hateful.
I found this information out from a girl working at a coffee shop, while talking about how Palin wanted women to go back to the stone age, she than gave me all the information for it.
November 6th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
I can’t believe that it was taken away. Keep fighting for it.
If you can’t get it passed just come on up to Canada It’s legal here everywhere you go.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
I live in Phoenix and am so embarassed to admit it after the gay marriage vote in Arizona. keep up the fight guys! it’ll have to come sooner or later – it’s only right. best wishes – LUURVE you Trent, Sue
November 6th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
It’s astonishing to me that this debate has become about “taking away rights” when those “rights” didn’t even exist until 8 months ago. The decision by the CA Supreme Court this year did nothing less than elevate the rights of a certain group of people above every other right known to the people of California. Despite claims to the contrary, the passage of Prop 8 WOULD endanger churches (pastors who refuse to perform gay marriage ceremonies or allow those ceremonies to take place in their churches), the rights of parents to educate their children as they see fit and countless other areas.
I voted yes on prop 8 to protect those things. The “sanctity” of marriage has been so badly erroded by the straight community – that’s a separate issue that needs to be addressed by churches and families. No fault divorce, infidelity and ridiculous stunts like Britney’s 55-hr marriage don’t help the institution at all.
I believe that the gay community would get a lot further in their arguments for “equal” marriage if their actions didn’t make it obvious that equal really means superior. Stop suing doctors who don’t want to perform IVF on lesbians – there are plenty of MD’s who are MORE than happy to do the procedure. Stop suing chapels, pastors and other groups for not performing /hosting ceremonies (it’s happened in the US and Canada). Stop suing businesses like those photographers in NM for not photographing gay weddings. STOP pushing gay marriage and gay relationships on small school children (King & King, What’s in a Family, gay marriage field trips). That topic should rightfully be left to parents to cover as they see fit.
I believe CA and US voters would believe you a lot more if this kind of litigious aggression stopped. If you really want “live and let live” then let churches and pastors and families and businesses have their freedom of conscience and association back.
In San Francisco, there are a number of churches that have experienced VIOLENT persecution from the gay community (members of the radical gay community invading church services and urinating on the foyer, fire bombing a pastor’s home, threatening their children, physically blocking members from entering their sanctuary for worship). This is absolutely unacceptable. If you want to use words like “fairness” “tolerance” and “equality” you need to make sure those things are embodied in your treatment of others.
I believe Californians saw more hate and bigotry coming from the No on 8 campaign than the Yes side.
It’s been clear, especially over the last several years, that tolerance is a one-way street and if you want the debate over gay marriage to change, that has to change too.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
certainly in a situation like this there will be people on both sides that make both sides look bad, but it’s comments like sfmom that group a bunch of people together and blame everyone in that group for the actions of a few. This sort of talk keeps the hate around. Of course the news is going to report the worst of the worst, that’s entertainment, it keeps their ratings up but if perhaps people ACTUALLY took the time to look at the whole picture you’d see that the majority of the protests and people protesting were peaceful. CA supreme court didn’t make the rights of the GLBT community superior to the rest of us it put them on the same playing field. It gave them the right to see loved ones in a hospital, the right to inherit property without being taxed just like straight couples have, it gave them the right to not have that property taking away after their loved one’s passed, by a second or third cousin because in the eyes of the current law that is next of kin, it gave them the right to keep their children if a loved one passes. Civil Unions don’t extend these rights, but Marriage does. Our country has come so far yet has so much further to go. People fight so hard for the rights of GLBT community because they feel like we’re fighting the same old fight. This is the same fight that our country has been fighting for centuries just with a different face; women’s rights, African Americans rights, minority rights. African Americans also weren’t allowed to marry in our country once upon a time. Our country is so desperately trying to progress and some people just refuse to let it grow. One day, perhaps, we can be civil towards one another.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
You want to accuse me of grouping people together? I am not making sweeping generalizations. Regarding the incidents in SF, I’m talking about very specific cases that are well documented (and these are not incidents that received much, if any, coverage from the mainstream news media, they are incidents I know of because they either happened to myself, my family or people I know firsthand).
The legal cases are also well documented and a quick search on google will verify each and every one. I am not saying that all gay people who want to get married are like this, but I am saying that there is a very loud and outspoken faction within the gay community that is using the court system (and taking advantage of an overabundance of activist judges) to force their agenda on the public, instead of taking the case to the people and making their arguments in reasonable and civil ways.
The current laws of California provide adequate means to protect against each and every problem you’ve cited to justify marriage. It is either incredibly ignorant or an outright lie to say that domestic partnership does not confer these rights. The CA legislature has taken great pains to craft policies that would extend these protections to domestic partners.
“Assembly Bill 26 passed in 1999 established the statewide domestic partner registry and conferred a handful of rights which included hospital visitation and the right of state and local employers the ability to offer health care coverage to the domestic partners of their employees. Assembly Bill 25 was passed in 2001 and extended the rights of domestic partners to include the right to make medical decisions, the right to inherit when partner dies without a will, the right to use state step-parent adoption procedures, the right to use sick leave to care for a domestic partner and the right to be appointed as administrator of estate. In 2003 Assembly Bill 205 was passed, basically extending all of the state-level rights and responsibilities of marriage to domestic partners. The rights and responsibilities associated with Assembly Bill 205 went into effect on Jan. 1, 2005. ”
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/cyf/civilunions_domesticpartnership_statutes.htm
So – the debate simply isn’t about providing protections that don’t currently exist – it is about rewriting the basic and traditional definition of marriage.
The people of California have exercised their constitutional right to AMEND the Constitution and this should be accepted. You will get much further in the culture “war” by engaging in reasoned and truthful debate than ramming your agenda through the courts against the will of the people.
November 6th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Todd, I am sorry that you were a victim of violence. There’s no excuse for it on either side of the debate. Period. Nothing justifies it.
But those incidents that I pointed out did happen and there’s a big sense that they WERE justified because those people were “fighting for their rights” and were angry that those churches were opposed to the gay lifestyle or agenda.
I do know empathy, I realize that the people on the other side of the gay marriage debate are just that, they are people. But I am not trying to say who you can and cannot love. My yes vote on Prop 8 wasn’t about preventing you from forming a relationship with anyone, it was about protecting children, families, businesses and churches from persecution based on their beliefs. I voted this way because I CAN and DO think and can connect the dots regarding the legal implications of the debate. I’ve also done extensive research about the impacts of gay marriage in other states and countries and can see what has happened there.
Just as I don’t assume that every gay person I see on the streets of SF is out to sue every single person that gets in their way, you should not assume that every person who votes for the traditional definition of marriage is an ignorant and bigoted backwater troglodyte who has no empathy and cannot think.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:03 am
sfmom these were your words that generalized a community words that accused a whole community of doing that which only a few have done: —————>
“I believe that the gay community would get a lot further in their arguments for “equal” marriage if their actions didn’t make it obvious that equal really means superior. Stop suing doctors who don’t want to perform IVF on lesbians – there are plenty of MD’s who are MORE than happy to do the procedure. Stop suing chapels, pastors and other groups for not performing /hosting ceremonies (it’s happened in the US and Canada). Stop suing businesses like those photographers in NM for not photographing gay weddings. STOP pushing gay marriage and gay relationships on small school children (King & King, What’s in a Family, gay marriage field trips). That topic should rightfully be left to parents to cover as they see fit.
I believe CA and US voters would believe you a lot more if this kind of litigious aggression stopped. If you really want “live and let live” then let churches and pastors and families and businesses have their freedom of conscience and association back.
In San Francisco, there are a number of churches that have experienced VIOLENT persecution from the gay community (members of the radical gay community invading church services and urinating on the foyer, fire bombing a pastor’s home, threatening their children, physically blocking members from entering their sanctuary for worship). This is absolutely unacceptable. If you want to use words like “fairness” “tolerance” and “equality” you need to make sure those things are embodied in your treatment of others.
I believe Californians saw more hate and bigotry coming from the No on 8 campaign than the Yes side. “
November 7th, 2008 at 12:11 am
I am talking about the most vocal factions of the community (the parts we hear from most – you know the old adage “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”).
The sweeping generalizations I’ve heard from select anti-8 supporters include: 5 million yes voters = bigots. There’s been a huge rash of hate speech against religious groups that supported 8 and many, many things said comparing people of faith to Nazis. Like it or not, not ever person who voted yes on 8 did so out of unadulterated hatred of gay people. Some just believe that marriage should continue to be what it has historically been, a gender-based, family institution between a man and a woman.
Thanks for quoting me though. :)
November 7th, 2008 at 12:13 am
sfmom why do YOU care what the definition of marriage is? How does slightly altering it affect you? I’m happily married, and I don’t see how someone else’s marriage affects me. It doesn’t infringe on my rights as a citizen of California or the US, and your wrong the current law for civil unions does not equal that of marriage. I should know, people I love and care about have had these issues since the civil unions have been in place here in CA. I sorry you and your family have been personally affected by the negativity but isn’t that the same as people who were targeted and attacked during the civil rights movements. What happened to you and your loved ones was wrong but nonetheless it isn’t a valid reason to condemn a whole community.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:15 am
sfmom for the record i do understand what you are saying i get your point, i just disagree with it as you disagree with mine but i’d like to thank you for being civil. :)
November 7th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Why can people just stop crying about the outcome, this is a democracy and the majority has spoken.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:43 am
It’s funny how people are comparing people who voted yes like nazis. It’s ridiculous and rude.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:51 am
What is everyone’s problem with letting gay and lesbian couples get married?
I’m from Canada and we’ve had it legal here for quite some time and I hate to break it to all you nay-sayers…. we have not collapsed as a society.
The word “Marriage” is just that… a word! No one, especially heterosexuals, own the rights to a word. What gives us the right to define what constitutes a marriage?Hate-mongering and threats?
Marriage doesn’t need our protection.
When I have children I am going to teach them (like mine taught me) that some kids have two moms, some kids have two dads, some kids have one mom and one dad, some kids just have a mom and some kids just have a dad. T
There are all types of families and NOBODY has the right to tell a loving couple that their family doesn’t count.
Prop 8 should never have been an option to vote, things like this should not be left to the general population..
What exactly is everyone afraid of ?
November 7th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Trent about your comment- “Can you imagine what the outcry would be if Atheists banded together to vote away the rights of the religious?”- don’t hate on the atheists yeah? We’re people too! :) Ironically the religious were mainly the ones who ‘banded together’ to vote away the rights of the GLBT community…
November 7th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Hi Trent! I’m from the Philippines, a very Christian nation, and I just want to say, VERY WELL SAID. I admire your ability to put sense into words effortlessly and intelligently.
BCgirl, I agree with you completely. My husband agrees that prop 8 shouldn’t even be up to the public.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:43 am
There’s a petition going round online, it’s at about 220,000 already – you should definitely post it, I’m sure it would increase tenfold.
http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html
November 7th, 2008 at 5:59 am
i was also livid about the vote on prop8. what a joke. majority should NOT be voting on something such as gay marriage. it is not up to the public. & the ’sanctity’ of marriage? is that why so many ‘marriages’ don’t work out? i personally believe that if you love someone & want to be with them – do it b/c you want to, not because you ‘have to’ b/c a piece of paper says so.
keep fighting trent!
November 7th, 2008 at 6:00 am
& wish I was a resident of Cali — i’d be signing that petition….
November 7th, 2008 at 7:16 am
It is disgusting that this was able to happen, I mean it sincerely when I say that my heart breaks.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Well spoken… we are NOT a mob mentality and this will not stand. Victory will be ours.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Assumed Discrimination against gays:
-unable to be legally married in the state of California
Actual Discrimination against the Mormon Church in the last 2 months:
-property evasion
-theft
-destruction of property
-prejudge
-hate
I urge you all to look at the big picture and realize who is really being discriminated right now.
Don’t be a hypocrite
November 7th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Proud Mormon,
Thank you for opening my eyes to the fact that all the incidents of violence, hate and prejudice against gay people never happened. We’ve all been fooled.
I in no way support violence – those people who have caused harm to the Mormon Church or any other group/person should be punished. But as individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. I just think your “statistics” are a bit skewed.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
there is no win/win. its so sad. we would never do anything against gay people. BUT im not saying other people do not. its wrong. but Mormons have gotten a lot of flack through this and all we’ve done is suport our beliefs. as people can disagree, they cannot and should not harass/harm people or sacred places of worship. the fact that people are afraid to go to churches/temples because of this is wrong. You guys are fighting AGAINST discrimination by… discriminating? its very counterproductive. i wish there was a win/win situation but its apparent that someone will be unhappy no matter what.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Actually, the Mormon Church spent millions of their tax-free money on the political campaign to pass Prop 8. That is the reason the Mormon Church has been targeted. I understand there may be legal action to have the Mormon Church lose it’s tax-free status because of its active political involvement. There is no discrimination in the protests against the Mormon Churches political involvement … if they want to participate in politics, they have to accept the ramifications of that involvement.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
no one deserves to get targeted. ITS OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A STAND FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN… but do so maturely and with class… and without being totally rude and discriminatory. its totally hypocritical.