Why I’m Voting NO On Proposition 8
Bloggers have been asked to participate in Write To Marry Day today in order to highlight the campaign to OPPOSE the very discriminatory Proposition 8 ballot initiative that Californians will vote on next Tuesday. I have decided to take this opportunity to write up a post why I believe that Proposition 8 is harmful, not only to California but, to our country as a whole. As a person who would be directly affected by this hateful proposition, I feel incumbent to lend my support to the defeat of Proposition 8 in the State of California:
For me, the matter is a very simple one. It is absolutely wrong to legislate discrimination in this country. If Proposition 8 passes, the Constitution of the California will be amended to specifically deny the right to marry to same-sex couples. Not so long ago, it was the rule of law in this country to separate African Americans from Caucasians in schools, restaurants, buses, water fountains and more. It was legislated that “separate but equal” was fair and that segregation was just. The end of segregation in this country came from the Supreme Court. The highest court in the land ruled that denying the rights of minorities in any legislation was illegal under the terms of our US Constitution. Remember, it was legislatures in some States that drafted and passed laws that discriminated against African Americans. It was the executive branches of those states that enforced those laws. It was only when the high court stepped in to invalidate those laws and INSIST that all citizens of the United States be treated equally that our country was able to move forward towards ending segregation and discrimination against minorities. This Proposition 8 matter is the very much the same thing. We have learned that legislating unequal treatment is wrong. Even if you don’t believe in same-sex marriage, no matter who you are and for whatever reason, you have to agree that discrimination is wrong … it is un-American and it opposes everything that our country stands for. We live in a nation where we promise liberty and justice for all. Does it sound right that some citizens should not be allowed to marry just because other citizens think they should not be allowed to? No, it doesn’t — and that is why laws in some States that outlawed interracial marriage were struck down as illegal. It is the duty of our country to defend the rights of the minority in order to achieve equality for all. Allowing same-sex marriage rights WILL NOT AFFECT the marriage rights of anyone else … and for that reason alone it seems foolish to try and deny those rights to anyone. This would be the first time a Constitution would be amended to take away rights from a group of people. Even Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is voting against Prop 8. It’s just plainly wrong.
It really boils down to a simple matter of fairness. There were many, many people who vehemently opposed granting equal rights to women in this country. Our nation wouldn’t allow women to be discriminated against. There were many, many people who vehemently opposed granting equal rights to African Americans and other racial minorities in this country. Again, our nation wouldn’t allow those injustices to occur. Even tho there are many people out there who oppose granting EQUAL RIGHTS to same-sex couples, I honestly believe that our nation will not allow such discrimination to occur. The United States of America was founded on the fundamental belief that All Men are Created Equal. It’s as simple as that. I am Voting No on Proposition 8 because I want to see my country take the next step in fully realizing the principles it was founded on. Prop 8 is unfair and wrong. I believe that marriage equality should be enjoyed by all.
I know there are many people who would love to support the campaign to DEFEAT Prop 8 but they live outside of California. I would urge those folks to click HERE to donate whatever you can to help us Californians defeat this discriminatory proposition. I have donated a couple of times and I know the No on Prop 8 campaign can use all the money they can muster. It’s a tough time economically, but if you can donate anything I know it’ll help defeat legalized discrimination and uphold marriage equality for all.
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October 29th, 2008 at 11:28 am
If I could vote in California, I would do the same, Trent. Thanks for the eloquently-written post.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Fantastic! Excellent wording. Your statement is clear and honest. :)
October 29th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Hey Trent, thanks for posting this on your blog. I don’t live in California, but I am working against Proposition 4 there with my work (it is the parental notification ballot question) and have heard a lot about Prop 8 from our allies there. It really worries me that this is on the ballot, and I sincerely hope that Prop 8 fails miserably. I even talked to my Nana in CA about it, who’d gotten her head filled with some crazy junk by the local right-wing nutjobs. I am happy to say that she will be voting against Prop 8 (and 4!), along with the rest of our family there. I hope again it fails- everyone deserves the right to love who they choose. After all, love is the greatest gift- why deny it? Again, good luck. I’ll be prayin for 8 to fail on Nov. 4!
October 29th, 2008 at 11:45 am
well said Trent. also vote NO on 4 in California, another very important issue….
October 29th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Great! Excellent post. VOTE NO ON 8!
October 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I’d vote NO if I lived in Calif. too!
October 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Amen, Trent. The fact that it’s even up for debate, that people think it’s OK to say that a specific group is forbidden to partake in one of the greatest sources of happiness we can experience, is just ridiculous. NO ON 8!!!
October 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I live in California in the Bay Area and I will be voting NO on 8.
Having been to 3 fabulous weddings in the last 4 months, I have to wonder… what kind of people would try to stop love (REAL LOVE) from being recognized?
Each was a thing of beauty.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Though not in California, I am also, obviously, firmly against this Proposition and applaud Trent’s well written post. What’s more – just getting down to basics – a legal marriage by the State has nothing to do with personal opinion or personal religion. Removing all romantic notion, it is simply a legally binding contract between two consenting adults. There are plenty of heterosexual marriages in this country that might be personally questionable to me, but it is still their right. If you don’t believe in same-sex marriage, you have a right to that opinion. It is NOT anyone’s right, however, to impose their opinion on someone else’s legal rights. To deny two consenting adults marriage is simply discrimination.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Great post! They are trying to pass the same bullshit in Arizona and hopefully that will get crushed as well! You said everything that should have been said!!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Someday, our chidren’s children will think, “Can you believe there once was a time when people couldn’t marry whoever they chose?”. Hopefully, that day will come even faster. I don’t live in CA but I fully support voting NO on Prop 8. I’m crossing my fingers for you guys!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Thanks for writing this! But, I’d like to also remind everyone that lots of other states have similar discriminatory ballot measures, particularly my home state of Florida. Don’t let bigots write discrimination into the constitution of the fourth largest state in the union! Vote No on No. 2!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
After looking at the wedding photos of Ellen & Portia, I was totally convinced that true love has no boundaries. I looked at those photos thinking how much I wanted that, not to marry a woman, but to look that happy and in love. The glow they had is not something that can be faked. No one should be denied the right to express their love!!!! Thanks Trent :-)
October 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
One thing you nailed that if these closed minded idiots would just see or hear was:
“Even if you don’t believe in same-sex marriage, no matter who you are and for whatever reason, you have to agree that discrimination is wrong … it is un-American and it opposes everything that our country stands for.”
That in and of itself should be enough to make anyone & everyone vote no!
Excellent piece!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
If I lived in California i would for sure vote no as well! Hope it doesn’t pass!!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I can’t wait to vote no!
…I would love to hear a Yes voter defend this proposition without using religoin.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Well written Trent! And great comment from Your Sarah! I’ll definitely be Voting NO on Prop H8 (”hate”). It makes my blood boil that this has to be an issue. Especially when the commericals keep talking about the “fear” of teaching our children about same-sex marriages in school when that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this Propostion.
Nov. 4 can’t come fast enough for me!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
[...] Pink is the new Blog Why I’m Voting NO On Proposition 8 [...]
October 29th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Wonderful post, Trent! I’ll be voting no on 8 here in Berkeley. Jenny- you make a very good point: I have yet to hear a rational &/or non-religious argument in favor of this Prop. It saddens me that this has to even be an issue in this country.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I got a handout on my windshield that had a non-religious argument on it…but it was far from rational, so it doesn’t count. It involved a serious stretch of the imagination.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
To attempt to give an argument in support of Prop 8 that is not religion, while it’s not really an argument, I think simple tradition is what so many cling to. I’m pretty young and from a small town and, while growing up, you hear about men and women getting married. That is just the norm. I can remember hearing of 1 lesbian couple in the town. So for many people, I think it is breaking what they know to be the way of life. They probably think, if a man and a man can get married, what’s next, . . . [insert something you're not familiar with/maybe uncomfortable with/or just haven't been around]. That is simply the only argument I can think of, and while I understand how people hold what they’re familiar with close, they really should be urged to think about it from another perspective. Some traditions are meant to be broken.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I live in SF and what else can be said? Prop 8 makes me sick! NO ON 8….I was in other parts of the Bay Area this past weekend and many Yes on 8 signs were on non private property. I got mad and tore them off the lawns and grass. One thing I am noticing–many Asians are for Prop 8. I am not trying to be racist, please understand this..just something I’ve noticed lately..I’ve seen many Asians wearing Yes on 8 shirts and putting up signs. What gives?
October 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Hi Libs, With the divorce rate as high as it is, this isn’t about protecting the institution of marriage or about tradition… this seems to be more about people from small towns who are scared of/repulsed by lesbians/gays…. that fear seems to have always been the driving force behind most discrimination throughout history.
I’m trying to understand that not growing up where it is coomon and accepted might make this whole thing seem a little ‘odd’ to you… but, really Libs… with love, I’m telling you that love (all love) is beautiful and shouldn’t be denied.
Peace.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Very well written Trent!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Trent-
Very well written piece. Even though I was raised in a staunch Catholic family in the south I can still appreciate and understand the fact that no one person has the right to make a choice for someone else’s life. If I lived in California I would be voting No on Prop 8 as well.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Great post! I don’t think anyone could have said it better…I think I may post your post on my blog or a link to it and of course give you full credit. Even though I am in TX….California citizens vote NO on prop 8!!!
October 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“that love (all love) is beautiful and shouldn’t be denied”
Beautifully put GirlieGirl. :)
October 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Hi GirlieGirl. I don’t think I was clear enough on my post. I am absolutely against Prop 8 and don’t believe anyone should be denied the right to express their love. While growing up in a small town, I have still been able to think on my own and consider what purpose these supposed “norms” actually serve. So, I was just trying to explain why some may vote yes on 8 and, at the same time, try to encourage those who may be voting yes because that’s what they’re used to, to try to think about it a different way other than it’s just what they know.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
if you live in CT we have an equally important vote on tues – the first question is whether or not you want a constitutional convention; people who are against gay marriage rights are hoping the majority will vote ‘Yes’ on this so they can call the recent legalization of gay marriage in CT to a referendum… in other words, vote ‘NO’ on that question to protect gay marriage rights – like i just did on my absentee ballot :)
October 29th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
LOL! Thank goodness that isn’t your argument, Libs!
I can’t stand when people say ‘men marrying men… what’s next?’ These are all God’s PEOPLE… and this IS about people. To equate 2 men/women marrying with “something else” is insulting.
Thanks for the shout, Katie! ;-)
October 29th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
I am bummed that I will not be able to vote in CA matters anymore – I moved to a land far far away. I was actually talking to my Dad about this a couple of weeks ago to hear what he thought and he made a couple of good valid points. I would like to begin by stating that I am absolutely against discrimination, of any kind but I think that Prop 8 stands for is confused. Prop 8 is talking about granting the right of marriage, which is a religious act. This country is also about the separation of church and state, which essentially means that the state has no authority over what churches can and cannot do (as long as they are not federally funded, of course). Its tough. I honestly don’t know what to make of it. Rather than being fixated on marriage, it should be more centered on civil ceremony – something the state does have authority over. Ahhh, I feel weird writing this because I believe that any two people, regardless of sexual orientation, race, etc. should not be discriminated against – I guess my point is more or less to say that the state shouldn’t be able to decide this matter, regardless of which way it would go.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
GirlieGirl, I really like your approach to that argument. However non-sensical the “tradition” and “what’s next” arguments are, it unfortunately seems to really be how a lot of people think. I think explaining the beauty of love and that everyone are God’s people is a great way to help people open up and think about the rights some are being denied. I hope you get the chance to try and convince some people:-)
October 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
very well written trent!
you obviously have many supporters reading your blog :)
i live in a surprising conservative area of california, where those yes on 8 signs are everywhere. it really scares me! i 100% believe that the people voting yes don’t understand what they are voting for and its frustrating!!!
i’m voting for no on 8- and encouraging everyone i know to vote no as well!!!
October 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
holler at your boy!
October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Marriage, to me, is about love and commitment. If 2 people are willing to do that, then God bless them, no matter what their sex! With all the “marriages” by people drunk in Vegas or knocked up teens, “marriage” has changed whether people want to accept it or not. Allowing gays to marry may even change “marriage” back to the serious commitment it previously was.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Thanks for trying Libs!
I appreciate the response.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I do not agree with discrimination, however I am a Republican and consider myself right wing on many issues. My question is why are only left-wing opinions correct if this is about being open minded and letting others have their say and way of life? To me Liz The Second is being very hateful calling people crazy right-wing nutjobs. This does not seem fair or right especially when the whole purpose of this post is not to discriminate agains others. Every opinion is valid and represents someone’s life, religion etc and should be respected.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
What about Domestic Partnerships? That is a law that specfially accounts for the rights of homosexual relationships. Think of this on a global scale, what is more likely to change; 1) the definition of MARRIAGE that has long standing emotional meaning for millions of people or 2) the rights held within a Domestic Partnership? I just feel like the energy could be so much better leveraged to fight to ensure equal rights via Domestic Partnershps than trying state by state to change the definition of marriage. Most of those in favor of prop 8 say they just want the ‘rights’ but in reality, they are fighting for a definition change.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Civil marriage comes with over a thousand federal rights that domestic partnerships don’t have so that’s the biggest difference. Also, there is a difference already between civil marriage and religious marriage so anyone who is worried that somehow the definition of marriage in their church will change is totally wrong. There is a separation of church and state – we are just looking for equal rights under the law – period. No one individual or group has the right to treat anyone else as a second class citizen – it’s unfair and wrong.
San Francisco representing – and I will be voting NO ON PROP 8!!
October 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Trent,
I am not gay but many of my closest friends are. I completely agree with everything you are saying here. My friends and I don’t live in California but as you said….it boils down to one simple word….fairness. Never in a million years would you see anyone trying to pass a law or thinking it is OKAY to pass a law stopping people who are straight from geting married? So why is it okay for them to do the same for gays?
I truly believe that people should marry for love. Not gender. And what your neighbour chooses to do with their time, WHO they choose to share ther time with, and WHO they love is really nobody’s business but their own.
If this law is passed in California, how many other states will see this opportunity and follow suit? Discrimination is something that absolutely does not need to spread.
Love is Love. And nobody has the right to stand in the way of that!
I do see how alot of people would not be okay with this due to their religion, personal beliefs, etc…. but those vary from person to person. No one’s beliefs should be downsized or opposed. Gay mariage does not affect anyone….except those being married. So why is it a problem? It’s not.
I just wish that people would let other be who they are, love who they love, and do as they please.
On the whole…..I completely agree with what you are saying here. I encourage everyone who can to vote NO to proposition 8 to ensure that everyone has the right to be who they are without being discriminated against.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Well said Jessi!
October 29th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
i live in the great state of california and i am voting NO on prop 8. i feel that banning same-sex marriage is wrong and unfair. do people not realize that they are enjoying the right to be married JUST BECAUSE of their sexual orientation? i believe in equality. separate but equal is not equal at all.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Sam, the “What about Domestic Partnerships?” question is equivalent to “What about Colored schools?” or “What about Colored water fountains?” Separate but Equal is wrong. Freedom demands that all citizens are treated equally and I’m confident that our country will uphold freedom, justice and equality for all.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Thank you for taking such a public stand against Prop 8. I feel this has far reaching ramifications that effect not only California, but the entire country as well. It is important that anyone who has a voice stands up and uses it. It will be a travesty if this passes. Go, Trent!
October 29th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Trent – it’s not the same. it’s semantics, not rights. Homosexual relationships are inherently different by definition. What is so wrong with supporting a different term to describe them but fighting for equal rights within that?? Let’s vote no on Prop 8 for CA but fight for equal righs within domestic partnerships – it will be more widely accepted and more quickly establish rights on a global scale.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Don’t H8te, Vote no for 8!
October 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
thank you for this heartfelt and factual post. I cant even believe people would argue! There are so many reasons why porp 8 is wrong, but you got down straight to the most important point: there should be NO AMENDMENT THAT DISCRIMINATES. I have been in protests (although Im not old enough to vote!) and although we have gotten some horrible feedback, the overwhelming support just blew me away. VOTE NO ON PROP 8!
October 29th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Jessi, I’m actually working for a Republican organization- I’m a Republican too. I’ve stood up for McCain and Palin on this blog and others when they are bashed. I also come from a small town where people who have threatened to KILL the gay couple in town- why? Because “God” forbids it. This church group, that proudly calls themselves “Right Wingers” also distorts MY PARTY’s name by saying that women who get abortions are murdering whores, that gay people are Satan’s children, and have told the Mormon and Catholic high school groups in town to “Convert or burn”. These people are the ones who I refer to as right-wing nut jobs. They are proud to call themselves as so.
I’m a proud Republican. I’m against the state being involved in any of my rights, I own guns, I am a Southerner, Catholic, against high taxes and bigger government. That, to me, is what a Republican is- not this idea that everyone has that was created by a select few that the GOP is anti-gay marriage and anti-choice. We’re not- most Republicans are more worried about the economy than these fringe issues. I am furious that we are losing elections because that is how we market ourselves. That being said, Jessi, I was not trying to be hateful, and I’m sorry if it sounds that way. While everyone’s religion is sacred, it is not okay to be used to limit people’s life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. I am simply tired of people who are trying to rob gay people of their liberty because of their sexual orientation, and using my Party and my Faith to do it. That’s the whole point of Prop 8, and it’s anti-Christian and anti-Republican.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
That’s ridiculous. It’s not about what will be more widely accepted, it’s about what is right. Homosexual relationships are NOT different than any other relationship. Saying that is saying that being heterosexual is inherently better – which is terrible. Love is love, equality is equality. There is no middle ground. If we thought that way, we would never have any rights for people of color, women or anyone else.
Yes on prop 8 means re-writing our constitution specifically for religious people even though the constitution doesn’t mention the word god even once. It’s absurd that it is even up for debate and I hope with all of my heart that it will not pass. It will be a sad day if Obama wins but Prop 8 still passes. I doubt I will feel much like celebrating.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Monica, apparently you have no idea how gay marriage came to be legal in california in the first place.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
NO on Prop 8, i don’t live in california, i’m not even Legal yet, (i’m 17) but if i could vote, i’d vote NO, just because it is wrong, it’s a sick Prop, Marriage should be legal for anyone, we finally reached it, and it’s unfair that some people would want to change it with such a stupid prop…
NO ON 8!!!!!!!
October 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I have lived in California my whole life and I know exactly how this all came about. Your suggestion would be the easier option, but that doesn’t make it the right one. You have to attack problems at the root, not just put a band-aid on them. The ideology that says that “they” should have a separate word for marriage is wrong – period. Until we change that, we are not making progress. Again, equality is equality.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Preach, Trent! I wish I lived in California just so that I could vote NO on Proposition 8. It’s discrimination, pure and simple, so it’s wrong, pure and simple.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
and if you live in Florida, as i do, vote NO on 2… same thing, different state!
October 29th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I just wanted to say that I am 100% opposed to Prop 8. We cannot call ourself a free country if every single individual does not have equal rights. It is a disgrace that the concept of marriage has to be granted to a specific group of individuals… it should be a given right to any citizen. The marriage of a gay couple will no way harm other people, nor will it tamper with their lives in any form. Who you love cannot be changed or influence.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
http://jkrollie.blogspot.com/2008/10/californians-vote-no-on-prop-8.html
October 29th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I completely agree with you. It upsets me when I hear people voting yes on it. I talked to my parents about Prop. 8 just yesterday.. and hearing what my parents thought about it brought me to tears. I tried everything I could to just change their mind, but they just kept their mind stuck on voting yes for it. I was able to change a couple of my friends’ minds on same sex marriages, but for the elder generations it’s … difficult? :T
October 29th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
I’m a CA girl. I’ve already voted and I voted NO on Prop 8 and 4. Wonderful write up about how unfair this Prop is. *hugs*
October 29th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Thank you Trent, for that lovely essay! Ever since I first heard about this Prop, I have been against it, not only because I believe that love is love, no matter it be boy girl, boy boy or girl girl, but because I believe that marriage is a civil right, it isn’t a privieledge or something that only part of the population can aspire to! I have even successfully woo’ed my mother, who is a moderate Republican, to Vote No on Prop 8! I’m not sure I got her to vote for Obama, but, well, you can’t have everything :) I TOALLY agree with you Trent, that even if religiously, you don’t believe in homosexual marriage, you SHOULD believe that discrimination is wrong, wrong, wrong! If you look at our American history, then you would know that at one time, practically EVERY walk of life was discriminated against- The Chinese, Irish, Italians, Mexicans, African Americans, Japanese, Jewish, Catholics, homosexuals and even women! If you believe that it was wrong then, you better believe that it’s wrong now! Why would you continue to stand for discrimination? Vote No on Prop 8 and tell all your friends too! Keep up the campaigning guys!
October 30th, 2008 at 5:39 am
I wish I could help others to see that wanting to preserve marriage does not have to be a prejudiced or bigoted view. I don’t know if I can explain it, but I would like to try.
I don’t think anyone should be legally discriminated against because of their sexual preference. But are homosexuals being prevented from marrying as it is legally defined? No. They are choosing partners who do not fit the definition.
I find the claim that sexual urges cannot be controlled very interesting. Perhaps the urge itself cannot be controlled, but does that mean it should not be controlled by behavior? Do you think people should act out on every sexual urge?
Is it really bigoted to think that some sexual urges should not be acted on? This is not about equality nor is it an issue of legislating religion, but it IS an issue of legislating morality. The definition of marriage should not be changed just because a certain group of people do not want to be intimate with the opposite-sex. You could make the same claim that other current legal limits on marriage are discriminatory and should be thrown out. Why are some limits okay, and others aren’t?
Perhaps some people would prefer to see all the limits on marriage thrown out–should it not be limited to 2 people? Should there be no age restrictions? Should close relatives be forbidden to marry?
If you oppose changing the above limits are you bigoted?
October 30th, 2008 at 6:08 am
I’m pretty sure my marriage will survive if any state, or even the whole country, decides to allow gay people the right to marry. I am totally confused as to why some people feel their vows are somehow less sacred or important just because another couple is also allowed to marry.
Jennifer B., I appreciate you explaining your stance in what is obviously a well thought out and not inflammatory manner, but you could also look at this the other way. If, as you say, people are “choosing” partners that do not fit the definition, what’s to prevent the government from coming along later and further limiting that definition? What if you one day were not allowed to marry someone of another race, religion or political affiliation? Restricting rights in the constitution is never a good idea. Our country is built on preserving freedoms, not taking them away.
Of course not every sexual urge should be acted on. But we’re not talking sexual relationships here. We’re talking love, family and the right to find that happiness in a mature and mutually committed relationship.
October 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am
I don’t understand how people can use the argument that they are “defending the traditional role of marriage”. In Western civilization marriage was not just a personal matter concerning only husband and wife, but rather a business merging of their two families. Most marriages, therefore, were arranged. Romantic love wasn’t even originally involved!
And if you go through world history, there have been various incarnations of “Marriage”, some devoid of romantic love, some arranged, some with patriarchal family structure, some with matriarchal, some polygamist, etc, etc…
Marriage has NOT always been tied with religion.
I don’t know, I just don’t see how anyone can claim the a man/wife structure is “”traditional” unless they discount hundreds of years of world/cultural history.
Of course, I guess that isn’t much of a stretch for the same people who don’t believe in Dinosaurs.
No to Prop 8!!!
October 30th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I live in Northern California–San Jose to be specific. We’re a pretty liberal area when all is said and done. I went for a walk in my neighborhood yesterday (taking new baby out for a spin) and was shocked to see a number of Vote Yes on Prop 8 signs dotting the lawns just around the corner from my house. I mean seriously, are these people for real?! I’m generally pretty protective of people’s right to believe whatever the hell suits them as long as it doesn’t harm anyone. But this is a friggin joke. It was the first time I’ve EVER considered sneaking out at night and removing political lawn signs.
To me, giving all folks the right to marry is a no-brainer. And it pisses me off when I see so many people getting worked into a frenzy about this issue when there are SO many bigger things at stake — the faltering economy, the war in Iraq, etc. You mean to tell me giving gays the right to marry is more troublesome to people than the fact that our country is going down the toilet? Ugh.
Had to rant…I already voted by mail and if you didn’t already guess, voted “no” on Prop 8.
October 30th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Thanks so much for this! I wish I lived in California so badly so I could Vote NO!!!
I’ve been trying to say this to people that it’s like women’s rights and african americans rights in the early 1900’s. People tell me I’m ridiculous – you hit it right on the nose Trent. I really don’t understand how one would vote YES! Those people are disgusting.
October 30th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Jennifer B.- You wouldn’t be a bigot if you have reliable evidence to support your argument. Yes, you shouldn’t be able to marry your close relatives, there is scientific proof that marrying your close relatives causes genetic deformities- hemophilia (lack of clotting agents in your blood) being one of the many. Yes, there should be age limits, because children don’t have the mental capacities that adults have and cannot understand at the same level. I’m not saying that to sound like an ass, but in modern psychology with the modern technology we have, we are understanding the intricacies of the brain throughout years of development.
Kristen- The bible also says “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
Don’t forget that it was not that long ago when WOMEN didn’t even have rights, that we were just property to be sold and traded as slaves. (And some still are!) We got the right to vote in 1920, which was 144 YEARS after America was founded. We STILL don’t have equality to men, so who are we to be denying any shred of equality to someone else?
October 30th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Liz The Second,
I did not use religion as a reason for anything; in fact if you read my post it doesn’t voice my opinion either way. It simply states that it wasn’t respectful to call others nutjobs due to their opinion. And no you did not clarify which right-wingers you were calling nutjobs such as those who say gays are going hell. Regardless of my opionion I would never tell someone they were damned to hell especially for thinking different than me! I absolutely appreciate your views and think it is great we see a lot of things the same way. It is very hard to feel one way politically and another socially; it is something I struggle with everyday. That being said, I feel blessed to live in a country that let’s me vote and converse with others that feel different.
Have a great weekend!
October 30th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Bubblegum, you made an excellent point. Despite the romanticized stories that we have all heard as children, marriage for love is a relatively recent concept. Marriage, in a historical sense, was simply a stratigical arrangment to secure property and/or money and/or security for their family. Now, i am not trying belittle the idea of marriage, i believe marriage has evolved into a wonderful expression of two people’s love for eachother. Why should two men/women be denied the right to express their love the way a man and woman can? Do they not love eachother in the same way?
I find it ridiculous that the government feels it has the power to intervene in people’s lives like this. I feel very fortunate to live in country where this issue has been addressed and people are free to marry who they love.(Canada:)) If i could i would definitely vote NO on Prop 8.
October 31st, 2008 at 2:33 am
Amen, Trent, Amen!
August 17th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
THANKS!!! VOTE NO TO 8!!!
IT IS WRONG! I WILL BE PERSONALLY EFFECTED BY THIS AND I WAS PLANING TO GET MARRIED IN 1YR 1/2..NOW HOW DO WE CHANGE PLANS?? EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO MARRY WHO THEY LOVE WEATHER MAN-MAN OR WOMAN-WOMAN…WE ALL HAVE THAT RIGHT!